|  |  | Previous Folio / Niddah Directory / Tractate List / Navigate Site # Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Niddah ### Folio 38a even the days that are suitable for counting after the previous counting had been rendered void1 are also clean.2 We have learnt: HOW LONG MAY PROTRACTED LABOUR CONTINUE? R. MEIR RULED: EVEN FORTY OR FIFTY DAYS. Now this might quite possibly happen according to Rab on R. Adda b. Ahabah's interpretation,3 but according to Levi4 does not this present a difficulty?5 — Levi can answer you: Was it stated that she was clean throughout all these days?6 [No; if the birth occurs] in the days of menstruation7 she is regarded as a menstruant and only when it occurs in the days of her zibah 7 is she clean.8 Another reading. R. Levi ruled: [The birth of] a child is a cause of cleanness9 in those days only in which a woman may normally become a major zabah.10 What is the reason? It is written in Scripture,11 Her blood many days.12 Abba Saul in the name of Rab13 ruled: Even in the days in which she may normally become a minor zabah. What is the reason? Days14 and All the days14 are written in the context.15 We have learnt: HOW LONG MAY PROTRACTED LABOUR CONTINUE? R. MEIR RULED: EVEN FORTY OR FIFTY DAYS. Does not this present a difficulty against both of them?16 — Was it stated that she was clean throughout all of them?17 [No;] if she was in labour during the days of her menstruation she is regarded a menstruant and only where this occurred during the days of her zibah 18 is she clean. It was taught: R. Meir used to say. A woman may sometimes bleed19 for a hundred and fifty days20 without becoming a major zabah.21 How? The two days22 preceding the period of her menstruation,23 the seven days of menstruation, two days after menstruation,24 fifty days25 which childbirth causes to be clean, eighty days26 prescribed for a female birth,27 seven days of menstruation28 and the two days29 after the menstruation.30 If so,31 they32 said to him, might not a woman bleed all the days of her life and no major zibah would occur in them?33 — He replied: 'What is it that you have in mind? Is it the possibility of frequent abortions? The law of protracted labour34 does not apply to abortions'.35 Our Rabbis taught: A woman may sometimes36 observe a discharge on a hundred days and yet no major zibah would result from it. How? The two days37 prior to the time of menstruation,38 the seven days of menstruation, two days after menstruation,39 eighty days following the birth of a female child,40 seven days of menstruation and the two days39 after menstruation. What new law does this41 teach us? — That the law differs42 from him who ruled that it was impossible for the uterus to open without some bleeding, [since thereby]43 we were informed that it is possible for the uterus to open without previous bleeding.44 R. JUDAH RULED: … SUFFICES FOR HER etc. It was taught: R. Judah citing R. Tarfon ruled, Her [ninth] month suffices for her45 and in this there is one aspect of a relaxation of the law46 and one of restriction.47 How? If she was in labour for two days at the end of the eighth month and for one day at the beginning of the ninth month, even though she gave birth to the child at the beginning of the ninth month, she is regarded as having born it in zibah;48 but if she was in labour for one day at the end of the eighth month and for two days at the beginning of the ninth, even though she bore the child at the end of the ninth month,49 she is not regarded as having given birth in zibah.50 Said R. Adda b. Ahabah: From this51 it may be inferred that R. Judah holds that it is the shofar 52 that is the cause.53 But could this54 be right,55 seeing that Samuel stated: A woman can conceive and bear only on the two hundred and seventy-first day56 or on the two hundred and seventy-second day57 or on the two hundred and seventy-third day?57 He58 follows the view of the pious men of old; for it was taught: The pious men of old performed their marital duty on a Wednesday only, in order that their wives59 should not be led to60 To Part b Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files I.e., for ever, since any seven days following a discharge that occurred within any seven days counted after a previous discharge are suitable for counting. Once labour began within the eleven days of zibah all subsequent days are clean unless the woman was relieved from her pain for the prescribed period, prior to the birth of the child. Since the counting of the days may sometimes continue for a very long time (cf. prev. n. but one). Who restricts the labour and birth to the eleven days of zibah. Sc. how is it possible for a woman to be clean when labour is protracted for forty or fifty days? The forty or fifty days. After the protracted labour. The purport of R. Meir's ruling being that there is no obligation to bring a sacrifice or to count the prescribed number of clean days even though labour continued for forty or fifty days; but the woman remains clean only where the birth occurred in the days of zibah. If it occurs, however, in the days of menstruation she becomes unclean. Exempting the woman from a sacrifice and from the counting of seven clean days. I.e., where she experienced a discharge on three consecutive days in the course of the eleven days' period. If the discharge, however, appeared only on one day. she need not wait more than one clean day corresponding to the one unclean day. In the text from which it was derived that a birth in zibah is a cause of cleanness. Lev. XV. 25, 'many days' implying a major zabah (cf. prev. n. but one). Var. lec. Rabbi (Ronsburg). Lev. XV, 25; instead of 'days' the text has 'all the days' and from this is derived (infra 73a) the law of a minor zabah. Cf. supra p. 262, n. 12. Rab and Levi both of whom confined the period of cleanness within the eleven days of zibah. The forty or fifty days. After the third day according to Levi, and after the first or second one according to Rab. Lit., 'be in protracted labour', labour extending over a part of the period. In succession. Lit., 'and zibah does not rise among them'. The last of the eleven days of the zibah period. As zibah is not established unless a discharge appeared on three consecutive days in the zibah period, and as the third day was already one of the menstruation period, none of the days can be counted as one of a major zibah. These two days which begin a new zibah period are not sufficient to establish a major zibah (cf. prev. n. mut. mut). Of protracted labour on the part of an ailing woman (cf. supra 37b ad fin). The child having been born on the day following the (2 + 7 + 2 + 50 = ) 61st day. During which there can be no zibah. Following the (61 + 80 =) 141st day. V.supra n. 11. 2 + 7 + 141 (cf. prev. nn.) = 150. That such a long period may pass without zibah. The Rabbis who disagreed with him. Owing to frequent abortions. Sc. that childbirth at their termination renders them all clean. Only a viable child confers the privilege. In the absence of protracted labour. The last of the eleven days. V. p. 263. n. 10. V. p. 263. n. 11. During which there can be no zibah. Which is self-evident. Lit., 'to exclude'. By implying that a birth on the day following the first two days of the zibah period on each of which a discharge was observed, does not cause zibah. Had there been bleeding it would have been regarded, in the absence of the pains of labour, as a discharge on the third day (cf. prev. n.) which turns the woman into a confirmed or major zabah. Cf. relevant n. on our Mishnah. A month and one day being sometimes regarded as clean. The cleanness sometimes does not extend even to one day. Since the greater part of the duration of the labour (two days out of three) was in the eighth month when labour is no cause of cleanness. During all of which, with the exception of the first two days, she had complete relief from pain. Provided only that there was no bleeding during the time she was free from pain. The reason follows. The ruling that two days of labour in the ninth month are a cause of uncleanness. The trumpet that announces the beginning of a new month. Of the birth of the child; sc. as soon as the ninth month begins the process of bearing begins with it, irrespective of the moment when birth actually took place. Hence all the blood of labour in that month must be attributed to the child, however long the interval of relief may have lasted. That birth should take place at the beginning of the ninth month. Lit., 'I am not'. Full nine months (of thirty days each) plus one day after intercourse. Conception being sometimes delayed one or two days (cf. prev. n.). Samuel, in differing from R. Judah. By bearing on a weekday. 271, 272 and 273 days make up 38 weeks and 5, 6 and 7 days respectively, so that a conception on a Wednesday results in a birth on a Sunday, Monday or Tuesday. Lit., 'come into the hand of', by bearing on the Saturday. Tractate List / Glossary / / Bible Reference ### Niddah 38b a desecration of the Sabbath.1 'On a Wednesday', but not later?2 — Read: From Wednesday onwards.3 Mar Zutra stated: What was the reason of the pious men of old? — Because it is written, And the Lord gave her conception [herayon],4 and the numerical value of herayon5 is two hundred and seventy-one.6 Mar Zutra further stated: Even according to him who holds that a woman who bears at nine months does not give birth before the full number of months has been completed,7 a woman who bears at seven months may give birth before the full number of months has been completed, for it is stated in Scripture. And it came to pass, after the cycles of days8 that Hannah conceived, and bore a son;9 the minimum of 'cycles'10 is two,11 and the minimum of 'days10 is two.12 R. JOSE AND R. SIMEON RULED: PROTRACTED LABOUR CANNOT CONTINUE FOR MORE THAN TWO WEEKS. Samuel stated: What is the reason of the Rabbis? Because it is written in Scripture. Then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her menstruation,13 which implies: Only 'as in her menstruation' but not as in her zibah; from which it follows that her zibah is clean for14 'two weeks'. Our Rabbis taught: A woman may sometimes be in labour15 for twenty-five days and no major zibah would intervene.16 How? Two days preceding her menstruation period;17 seven days of menstruation, two days following menstruation and the fourteen days which18 the childbirth causes to be clean. It is impossible, however, for her to be in labour for twenty-six days, where there is no child,19 without giving birth to it is in zibah.20 But if there was no child would not21 three days suffice?22 — R. Shesheth replied. Read: Where there is a child. Said Raba to him: But was it not stated 'where there is no child'? Rather, said Raba, it is this that was meant: It is impossible for her to be in labour for twenty-six days, where there is a child, without giving birth to it in zibah; and where there is no child but an abortion she is a zabah even after three days. What is the reason? — The law of protracted labour23 does not apply to abortions. MISHNAH. IF A WOMAN WAS IN PROTRACTED LABOUR DURING THE EIGHTY DAYS24 PRESCRIBED FOR THE BIRTH OF A FEMALE, ALL KINDS OF BLOOD THAT SHE MAY OBSERVE25 ARE CLEAN,26 UNTIL THE CHILD IS BORN, BUT R. ELIEZER HOLDS THEM TO BE UNCLEAN.27 THEY SAID TO R. ELIEZER: IF IN A CASE WHERE THE LAW WAS RESTRICTED IN REGARD TO BLOOD DISCHARGED IN THE ABSENCE OF PAIN,28 IT WAS NEVERTHELESS RELAXED.29 IN REGARD TO BLOOD DISCHARGED DURING PROTRACTED LABOUR, IS THERE NOT EVEN MORE REASON TO RELAX THE LAW30 IN REGARD TO THE BLOOD OF LABOUR IN A CASE WHERE31 IT WAS RELAXED32 EVEN IN REGARD TO A DISCHARGE IN THE ABSENCE OF PAIN?26 HE REPLIED: IT IS ENOUGH THAT THE CASE INFERRED33 SHALL BE TREATED IN THE SAME MANNER AS THE ONE34 FROM WHICH IT IS INFERRED. FOR IN WHAT RESPECT WAS THE LAW RELAXED FOR A WOMAN IN THE LATTER CASE?35 IN THAT OF THE UNCLEANNESS OF ZIBAH 36 ONLY; WHILE SHE IS STILL SUBJECT TO THE UNCLEANNESS OF THE MENSTRUANT. GEMARA. Our Rabbis taught: She shall continue [in the blood of her purification],37 includes a woman who was in protracted labour during the eighty days24 prescribed for the birth of a female, viz., that all kinds of blood that she may observe are clean, until the embryo is born,38 but R. Eliezer holds them to be unclean. They said to R. Eliezer: If in the case where the law was restricted in regard to blood discharged in the absence of pain before the child was born,39 it was nevertheless relaxed in regard to blood discharged in the absence of pain after the child was born,40 is there not even more reason to relax the law in regard to the blood of labour after the child was born40 in a case where it was relaxed in regard to the blood of labour before the child was born? He replied: It is enough that the case inferred41 shall be treated in the same manner as the ones from which it is inferred. For in what respect was the law relaxed for a woman in the latter case?42 In that of the uncleanness of zibah only, while she is still subject to the uncleanness of the menstruant. They said to him, We would submit to you an objection in a different form: If in the case where the law was restricted in regard to blood discharged in the absence of pain before the child was born,39 it was nevertheless relaxed in regard to blood discharged at such a time43 in protracted labour, is there not even more reason that, where 'the law was relaxed in regard to blood discharged in the absence of pain after the child was born,44 the law should be relaxed in regard to blood discharged at such a time43 during protracted labour? He replied: Even if you were to offer objections all day long it must be enough that the case inferred44 shall be treated in the same manner as the one42 from which it is inferred. For in what respect was the law relaxed for a woman in the latter case?42 In that of the uncleanness of zibah only, while she is still subject to the uncleanness of the menstruant. Raba observed, R. Eliezer could successfully have offered the Rabbis the following reply: Did you not explain Her blood45 thus: 'Her blood' refers to blood that is normally discharged, but not to such as is due to childbirth?46 Well, here also, it may be explained: And she shall be cleansed from the fountain of her blood,47 'her blood' refers to blood that is normally discharged but not to such as is due to childbirth.48 But might it not be suggested49 [that if a discharge occurred] during the days of menstruation she is a menstruant, [while if it occurred] during the days of zibah she is clean? — Scripture said, She shall continue,50 which implies: One form of continuation throughout all these days.51 MISHNAH. THROUGHOUT ALL THE ELEVEN DAYS52 A WOMAN IS IN A PRESUMPTIVE STATE OF CLEANNESS.53 - To Next Folio - Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files Childbirth would necessitate the performance of certain work (e.g., making a fire, boiling hot water) which is otherwise forbidden on the Sabbath. But why not, seeing that conception on a Thursday, Friday or Saturday would equally result in a birth on a weekday? But not on the nights preceding (and ritually belonging to) Sunday, Monday and Tuesday, since conception on any of these might result in a birth on a Sabbath which is the two hundred and seventy-third from a Sunday, the two hundred and seventy-second from a Monday and the two hundred and seventy-first from a Tuesday. Ruth IV, 13. [H]. [H] = 5, [H] = 200, [H] = 10, [H] = 6, [H] = 50. Limekuta'in, 'incompleted (number)'. E.V., When the time was come about. I Sam. I, 20. The plural number. Each cycle (tekufah) consisting of three months (the year being divided into four cycles) and two cycles consisting, therefore, of six months. As the text speaks of Hannah's conception and birth of Samuel it follows that a viable child may be born in the seventh month after the short pregnancy of six months and two days. Lev. XII, 5, E.V., impurity. Lit., 'and how much'. Either with or without pains. Prior to birth. For notes v. supra 38a. According to R. Jose and R. Simeon. This is discussed presently. Since a child causes the cleanness of fourteen days only (that immediately precede its birth), thus leaving twelve days at the beginning of the period of twenty-six days, there remain three days (between the first seven days of menstruation and the last fourteen) in the course of which she becomes a major zabah. In the zabah period. To render her a major zabah. Sc. the law that a discharge in such circumstances is clean. The fourteen unclean and sixty-six clean ones (cf. Lev. XII, 5). During the sixty-six clean days. Within the fourteen days (cf. prev. n.) labour is, of course, impossible. During the sixty-six days the blood is regarded (cf. Lev. XII, 5) as invariably clean. If the birth took place during the period of menstruation. During the sixty-six days (cf. prev. n. but one) she is only free from the uncleanness of zibah but not from that of menstruation. A woman who gave birth to a child after she had experienced a discharge without pain on three consecutive days is regarded as having given birth in zibah. The woman being exempt from zibah. To exempt the woman from all forms of uncleanness. As in the case of a woman who gave birth during the sixty-six clean days (cf. supra n. 1). To exempt the woman from all forms of uncleanness. A discharge during labour in the sixty-six days. Protracted labour at any other time. Cf. prev. n. Lit., 'from what did he make it lighter for her'. Cf. supra n. 8. Lev. XII, 4. When she becomes unclean by reason of the birth. V. supra p. 267, n. 5. During the sixty-six days. Protracted labour after the birth of a previous child. Protracted labour before a birth. Lit., 'which is with it'. A discharge during labour in the sixty-six days. Lev. XV, 25. Supra 36b, q.v. notes. Lev. XII, 7. Only the former is clean, but not the latter. According to R. Eliezer. Lev. XII, 4. They are either all clean or all unclean. No distinction can, therefore, be made between the periods of zibah and menstruation. That follow the seven days' period of menstruation. This is discussed in the Gemara infra. Tractate List / Glossary / / Bible Reference |  |  |