|  |  | Previous Folio / Niddah Directory / Tractate List / Navigate Site # Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Niddah ### Folio 39a IF SHE NEGLECTED TO1 EXAMINE HERSELF, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER THE NEGLECT2 WAS UNWITTING, UNDER CONSTRAINT OR WILFUL, SHE IS CLEAN. IF THE TIME OF HER REGULAR PERIOD HAS ARRIVED AND SHE FAILED TO EXAMINE HERSELF SHE IS DEFINITELY UNCLEAN.3 R. MEIR RULED: IF A WOMAN WAS IN A HIDING-PLACE4 WHEN THE TIME OF HER REGULAR PERIOD ARRIVED AND SHE FAILED TO EXAMINE HERSELF SHE IS DEFINITELY CLEAN, BECAUSE FEAR SUSPENDS THE FLOW OF BLOOD. BUT THE DAYS PRESCRIBED FOR A ZAB OR A ZABAH5 OR FOR ONE WHO AWAITS DAY AGAINST DAY6 ARE7 PRESUMED TO BE UNCLEAN.8 GEMARA. In respect of what laws had this9 to be stated? — Rab Judah replied: In order to lay down that no examination10 is required.11 But since it was stated in the final clause, IF SHE NEGLECTED TO EXAMINE HERSELF,12 it follows, does it not, that at the outset an examination is required? — The final clause applies to the days of the menstruation period; and it is this that was meant: THROUGHOUT ALL THE ELEVEN DAYS A WOMAN IS IN A PRESUMPTIVE STATE OF CLEANNESS13 and no examination is necessary, but during the days of her menstruation period14 an examination15 is required;16 but IF SHE NEGLECTED TO EXAMINE HERSELF, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER THE NEGLECT WAS UNWITTING, UNDER CONSTRAINT OR WILFUL, SHE IS CLEAN.17 R. Hisda replied: This18 was only required to indicate that R. Meir's ruling that19 a woman who has no regular period is forbidden marital intercourse,20 applies only to the days of her menstruation period, but during the days of her zibah she enjoys21 A PRESUMPTIVE STATE OF CLEANNESS. If so,22 why did R. Meir rule: He must divorce her and never remarry her?20 — Since it is possible to be tempted23 to improper conduct during the days of the menstruation period. But since it was stated in the final clause. IF THE TIME OF HER REGULAR PERIOD HAS ARRIVED AND SHE FAILED TO EXAMINE HERSELF, may it not be concluded that we are here dealing with one who had a REGULAR PERIOD? — The Mishnah is defective and the proper reading is this: THROUGHOUT ALL THE ELEVEN DAYS A WOMAN IS IN A PRESUMPTIVE STATE OF CLEANNESS and is, therefore, permitted to her husband, but during the days of her menstruation period she is forbidden to him. This, however, applies only to a woman who has no regular period, but if she has a regular period she is permitted to him and only an examination is necessary. IF SHE NEGLECTED TO EXAMINE HERSELF, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER THE NEGLECT WAS UNWITTING, UNDER CONSTRAINT OR WILFUL, SHE IS CLEAN. IF THE TIME OF HER REGULAR PERIOD HAS ARRIVED AND SHE FAILED TO EXAMINE HERSELF SHE IS DEFINITELY UNCLEAN. But, since the final clause is the view of R. Meir,24 the first one is not that of R. Meir, is it? — All the Mishnah represents the view of R. Meir and this is the proper reading: If she was not in a hiding place and the time of her regular period has arrived and she did not examine herself she is unclean, for R. MEIR RULED: IF A WOMAN WAS IN A HIDING PLACE WHEN THE TIME OF HER REGULAR PERIOD ARRIVED AND SHE FAILED TO EXAMINE HERSELF SHE IS CLEAN, BECAUSE FEAR SUSPENDS THE FLOW OF THE BLOOD. Raba replied: This25 is to tell that she26 does not27 cause twenty-four hours retrospective uncleanness. An objection was raised: A menstruant,28 a zabah,28 and a woman who awaits day against day29 or who is in childbirth30 cause twenty-four hours retrospective uncleanness! — This is indeed a refutation. R. Huna b. Hiyya31 citing Samuel replied: This25 is to tell that she cannot establish for herself a regular period during the days of her zibah.32 R. Joseph33 remarked: I have not heard this traditional explanation.34 Said Abaye35 to him, You yourself have told it to us,36 and it was in connection with the following that you told it to us: If she was accustomed to observe a flow of menstrual blood on the fifteenth day,37 and this was changed38 to the twentieth day,37 marital intercourse is forbidden39 on both dates.40 If this was changed twice to the twentieth day,41 marital intercourse is again forbidden on both dates. And in connection with this you have told us: Rab Judah citing Samuel explained. This42 was learnt only [when she was accustomed to observe a flow] on the fifteenth day after her ritual immersion43 which is the twenty-second day44 after her observation of her discharge, since on such a day45 she is already within the days of her menstruation period,46 but the fifteenth day after her observation, on which she is still within the days of her zibah period,47 cannot be established as a regular period. R. Papa stated: I recited this tradition before R. Judah of Diskarta [and asked:] Granted that she cannot establish thereby48 a regular period,49 must we take into consideration the possibility of such a regular period?50 The latter remained silent and said nothing at all. Said R. Papa: Let us look into the matter ourselves. [It has been laid down that] if she was accustomed to observe a flow of menstrual blood on the fifteenth day and this was changed to the twentieth day, marital intercourse is forbidden on both days.51 To Part b Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files Lit., 'she sat and did not'. Lit., 'and she did not examine'. It being presumed that the discharge had made its appearance at the regular time. Taking refuge from raiders or brigands. The seven clean days that must be counted after a confirmed zibah before cleanness is attained. One clean day for one unclean one, where the discharge appeared on no more than two days. Though within the ELEVEN DAYS. Unless the contrary was proved by an examination. The first clause of our Mishnah. Morning and evening (cf. supra 11a). After the eleven days such examination must be resumed. This presumably referring to the eleven days of the zibah period. Since her flow of blood had come to an end during menstruation. Following the conclusion of the eleven days of zibah. Morning and evening (cf. supra 11a). Ab initio. Only when THE TIME OF HER REGULAR PERIOD HAS ARRIVED AND SHE FAILED TO EXAMINE HERSELF IS SHE UNCLEAN. The first clause of our Mishnah. Lit., 'but according to R. Meir who said'. Supra 12b. Lit., 'stands'. That during the eleven days of zibah intercourse is permitted. Lit., 'come'. His name having been given explicitly. The first clause of our Mishnah. As the flow of her blood is suspended. After the first discharge during these days. On the first day of her observing a discharge. Cf. prev. n. After three observations she also would, of course, become a zabah. As soon as the uterus opened. Var. lec. Hiyyah b. R. Huna (Bomb. ed. and Rashi). Though menstruation began on the same day in three successive months. A disciple of Rab Judah who was the disciple of both Rab and Samuel. Attributed to Samuel. A disciple of R. Joseph who was often reminding his Master of traditions he had forgotten owing to a serious illness (cf. Ned. 41a). 'Before your illness'. After undergoing ritual immersion, as will be explained infra. Once. In the next two months. It is forbidden on the fifteenth which is the date of her regular period, and it is also forbidden on the twentieth since it is possible that henceforth that day would become her regular period. If in the third month also she experiences the discharge on the twentieth, she establishes thereby a new regular period and henceforth only the twentieth is forbidden while the fifteenth becomes permitted. V. p. 271, n. 14. That the fifteenth day is regarded as a regular period that cannot be altered unless the discharge appeared three times in three consecutive months respectively on a different date. Which is performed at the conclusion of the seven days' period of menstruation. The seven days of menstruation (cf. prev. n.) plus the fifteen days. Lit., 'for there'. Which begins after eighteen days (i.e., the seven days of menstruation plus the eleven, the days of the zibah period) have passed since the first day of the discharge, and continues for seven days. Cf. prev. n. By observing a discharge for three months on the same date during zibah. That could not be abolished by less than three observations on a different date in three consecutive months respectively. So that where a woman observed a discharge on the fifteenth day in each of three consecutive months intercourse on that day should be forbidden in the fourth months on the ground that, despite the zibah period in which the fifteenth day occurs, a regular period may have been established and the discharge would again appear on that date. Supra q.v. notes. Tractate List / Glossary / / Bible Reference ### Niddah 39b And in connection with this Rab Judah citing Samuel stated: This1 was learnt only [when she was accustomed to observe a flow] on the fifteenth day after her ritual immersion,2 which is the twenty-second day3 after her observation of her discharge, and it was changed to the twenty-seventh day4 so that when the twenty-second day5 comes round again she is well within the days of her zibah period,6 and yet it was stated that intercourse was forbidden on both days. It is thus clear that the possibility of a regular period7 must be taken into consideration.8 R. Papa is thus9 of the opinion that the twenty-two days10 are reckoned from the twenty-second day11 while the beginning of the menstruation and zibah period12 is reckoned from the twenty-seventh day.13 Said R. Huna son of R. Joshua to R. Papa: Whence do you draw your ruling? Is it not possible that the twenty-second day also is reckoned from the twenty-seventh day,14 so that when the twenty-second day comes round again the woman is within the days of her menstruation period?15 And this16 is also logical. For if you do not admit this,16 consider the case of a17 hen that laid eggs on alternate days18 and once ceased laying for two days and again laid on the following day. When it reverts to its former habit,19 does it do so in accordance with the present20 or in accordance with the past?21 You have no alternative but to admit that it would do it in accordance with the present.22 Said R. Papa to him: With reference, however, to what Resh Lakish ruled, 'A woman may establish for herself a settled period during the days of her zibah but not during the days of her menstruation' and to what R. Johanan ruled, 'A woman may establish for herself a settled period during the days of her menstruation', is not one to understand this as being a case,23 for instance, where she observed a discharge on the first day of the month, on the fifth of the month and again on the first of the second month and on the fifth of that month, and finally24 she observed a discharge on the fifth of the month while on the first of that month she observed none? And yet it was stated that 'a woman may establish for herself a settled period during the days of her menstruation'. It thus clearly follows25 that we reckon the days from the first day of the month?26 — No, the other replied, it is this that R. Johanan meant: A woman, for instance, who observed a discharge on the first day of the month, on the first day of the next month and on the twenty-fifth of that month, and on the first day of the following month, in which case we presume that27 she experienced an influx of additional blood.28 So also Rabin and all seafarers, when they came,29 reported the tradition30 in agreement with the explanation of R. Huna son of R. Joshua. - To Next Folio - Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files V. supra p. 272, n. 4. Which is performed at the conclusion of the seven days' period of menstruation. The seven days of menstruation (cf. prev. n.) plus the fifteen days. After her discharge. Since the day on which the discharge should have appeared. There being only (22 — 5 =) 17 days since her last discharge on the twenty-seventh. The seventeenth day, (the last of the seven days of menstruation and the ten of the eleven days of zibah) is obviously within the zibah period. Even on a day in the zibah period. V. supra p. 272, n. 12. Since he regards the twenty-second day as one of the days of the zibah period. On which intercourse was forbidden. Sc. the days on which formerly the discharge usually made its appearance and not from the twenty-seventh day. At the conclusion of the menstruation period, seven days later. The day on which the discharge last appeared. The twenty-second day after the twenty-second is only the seventeenth day after the twenty-seventh (cf. prev. n. but five). On which the discharge last appeared. The twenty-two days consisting of 7 (menstruation) + 11 (zibah) + 4 (of the seven of the present menstruation period) days. That the reckoning should begin from the day of the last discharge rather than from the day on which the discharge should have appeared. Lit., '(what about) that'. Lit., 'that lays on a day and holds back on (the next) day' (bis). Laying on alternate days. Lit., 'as before it', i.e., laying on alternate days beginning with the last day (the sixth in the case submitted) refraining on the seventh and laying again on the eighth, and so on. Lit., 'as originally', i.e., alternating with the day on which laying should have taken place (the fifth in the case submitted), thus laying on both the seventh as well as the sixth. Since alternation with the day on which laying should have taken place would only result (cf. prev. n.) in a new disturbance of the regularity (laying on two consecutive days). Similarly, in the case of the woman, a reversion to her regular periods can only be effected by counting the days from the one on which her discharge last appeared, viz., from the twenty-seventh day. Lit., 'how is one to imagine, not?' Lit., 'and now'. Since the fifth day of the month is regarded as of the 'days of her menstruation'. Though on that day no discharge had appeared. From which it follows that the counting of the days begins from the day on which the discharge should have appeared and not from that on which it appeared the last time. The reason why the discharge made its appearance on the twenty-fifth day of the second month and not on the first day of the following month. And, as a result, the discharge whose regular time of appearance was still the first of the month made its appearance a little earlier. The first day of the month being within seven days from the twenty-fifth of the previous month (on which the discharge appeared) may well be described as within the days of menstruation. From Palestine to Babylon. Of R. Johanan. Tractate List / Glossary / / Bible Reference |  |  |