|  |  | Previous Folio / ‘Abodah Zarah Directory / Tractate List / Home / Navigate Site # Babylonian Talmud: Tractate ‘Abodah Zarah ### Folio 57a If I find a Tanna who forbids its use as does R. Nathan, then I will forbid it even to be used for any purpose whatever — since it has been taught: If [a heathen] measured [the quantity of wine] either by using his hand or leg for that purpose, it may be sold;1 whereas R. Nathan says: If he used his hand it is prohibited, but if his leg it is permitted. But then admit that R. Nathan declared [his prohibition where the wine was touched] by the hand,2 but did he say so [when it was touched] by the leg! — Rather [must he have thought to himself], If I find a teacher who permits3 like R. Simeon, then I will permit it even for drinking. It happened at Biram4 that a heathen climbed a palm-tree and took one of its branches. While descending he unintentionally touched a [cask of] wine with the branch. Rab, [on being consulted] permitted it to be sold to heathens.5 R. Kahana and R. Assi said to him,'But the Master6 it was who declared that a child only a day old can render wine nesek!'7 He replied, 'I merely decided against its being drunk [by Israelites], but did I say aught against its use otherwise [by them]?' The text states: The Master himself has declared that a child only a day old can render wine nesek.' R. Shimi b. Hiyya quoted in objection to Rab's statement: If [an Israelite] bought slaves from a heathen who had been circumcised but not immersed,8 and similarly with the children of female slaves9 [born in an Israelite's house] who had been circumcised but not immersed, their spittle and the place where they tread in the street10 are unclean, but others declare that they are clean. As for wine, adults render it nesek [by contact with it], but minors do not render it nesek. The following are adults and minors: Adults are such as understand the nature of an idol and its appurtenances, whereas minors are such as do not understand this.11 At all events, it here teaches that adults do [render wine nesek] and minors do not!12 — [Rab] explained the teaching as referring to the children of female slaves.13 But in the passage [cited above] we have the words 'and similarly'!14 — That refers to their spittle and place of treading!15 This answer is all right according to him who declared that these are unclean, but according to him who declared that they are clean what is there to say?16 — It informs us of the similarity of slaves to the children of female slaves: as the children of female slaves, when circumcised but not immersed, render wine nesek, and if both circumcised and immersed do not, so is it also with slaves. This excludes what R. Nahman said in the name of Samuel, viz.: If [an Israelite] bought slaves from a heathen, although they had been both circumcised and immersed, they render wine nesek until idolatry is entirely banished from their lips. Hence we are informed that it is not so. The text states: 'R. Nahman said in the name of Samuel: If [an Israelite] bought slaves from a heathen, although they had been both circumcised and immersed, they render wine nesek until idolatry is entirely banished from their lips.' How long is this? — R. Joshua b. Levi said: Up to twelve months. Rabbah quoted against R. Nahman: If [an Israelite] bought slaves from a heathen, who had been circumcised but not immersed, and similarly with the children of female slaves, who had been circumcised but not immersed, their spittle and the place where they tread To Part b Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files By an Israelite to a Gentile, although he may not drink it himself. The heathen's intention was to measure and not render the wine nesek. For all that R. Nathan prohibits it when the measuring was done by hand. And the question put to Samuel related to treading grapes with the feet. Wine touched by a heathen when the intention was innocent of idolatry. V. infra 60b. A town between Syria and Mesopotamia. It possessed a hot spring (Sanh. 108a). [According to Obermeyer op. cit., p. 25, it lay 8 parasangs north of Pumbeditha, on the Western bank of the Euphrates.] And the money used, but Israelites may not drink the wine. I.e., Rab himself. It was respectful to address an individual in the third person. Obviously without intention; so why is it mentioned that the heathen touched the wine unintentionally? In a ritual bath. Both are necessary for proselytisation. If they have not become converts before the birth of the children. After their conversion, the children born to them are Jews and do not require immersion. [Even in a street, where doubtful cases of uncleanness are considered clean (Toh. IV, 11). Tosef, A.Z. III, however, omits 'in the street'.] V. Tosef. A.Z. III. This contradicts Rab's assertion that a child a day old can make wine nesek. Only these do not make wine nesek, but ordinary heathen children do. Which seem to imply that the law holds good equally of heathen slaves who were bought and slave-children born in an Israelite's house. And not to wine. How is the phrase 'and similarly' to be explained? Tractate List / Glossary / / Bible Reference ### ‘Abodah Zarah 57b in the street are unclean, but others declare that they are clean. As for wine, adults render it nesek but minors do not render it nesek. The following are adults and minors: Adults are such as understand the nature of an idol and its appurtenances, whereas minors are such as do not understand this! At all events it here teaches that when circumcised but not immersed, they do [render wine nesek], and if both circumcised and immersed they do not!1 — [R. Nahman] explained the teaching as referring to the children of female slaves.2 But in the passage cited above we have the words 'and similarly'! — That refers to their spittle and place of treading. This answer is all right according to him who declared that these are unclean, but according to him who declared that they are clean what is there to say? — It informs us of the similarity of slaves to the children of female slaves: as the adult children of female slaves render wine nesek but if minors they do not, so also with slaves they render wine nesek when adults but not when minors. This excludes what Rab said: A child only a day old can render wine nesek. Hence we are informed that it is not so. It happened at Mahuza3 that a heathen came and entered the shop of an Israelite. He asked them, 'Have you wine to sell?' They replied, 'We have not.' There was some wine contained in a bucket, into which [the heathen] plunged his hand and splashed about, and said to them, 'Is not this wine?' In his anger [the shop-keeper] took the wine and poured it back into the cask. Raba permitted him to sell it4 to Gentiles, but R. Huna b. Hinnena and R. Huna son of R. Nahman differed from him.5 An announcement issued from Raba permitting [the sale of the wine], and an announcement issued from R. Huna b. Hinnena and R. Huna son of R. Nahman forbidding it. - To Next Folio - Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files Nothing is here said of the condition 'until idolatry is entirely banished from their lips.' Having been reared in the house of an Israelite, such a condition is unnecessary, but not with bought slaves who had been brought up in an idolatrous environment. A town on the Tigris. Although it contained yen nesek. When they heard of it, but they were not in the town to argue the subject with Raba. They forbade its use for any purpose. Tractate List / Glossary / / Bible Reference |  |  |