|  |  | Previous Folio / Niddah Directory / Tractate List / Navigate Site # Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Niddah ### Folio 61a AS THOUGH THEY WERE LIKELY TO OBSERVE ONE. MISHNAH. IF THREE WOMEN SLEPT IN ONE BED, AND BLOOD WAS FOUND UNDER THE MIDDLE ONE, THEY ARE ALL UNCLEAN. IF IT WAS FOUND UNDER THE INNER ONE,1 THE TWO INNER ONES2 ARE UNCLEAN WHILE THE OUTER ONE IS CLEAN. IF IT WAS FOUND UNDER THE OUTER ONE,3 THE TWO OUTER ONES4 ARE UNCLEAN WHILE THE INNER ONE5 IS CLEAN. WHEN6 IS THIS THE CASE?7 WHEN THEY PASSED8 BY WAY OF THE FOOT OF THE BED,9 BUT IF THEY PASSED ACROSS IT,10 THEY ARE ALL UNCLEAN.11 IF ONE OF THEM EXAMINED HERSELF AND WAS FOUND CLEAN, SHE REMAINS CLEAN WHILE THE TWO OTHERS ARE UNCLEAN. IF TWO, EXAMINED THEMSELVES AND WERE FOUND TO BE CLEAN THEY REMAIN CLEAN WHILE THE THIRD IS UNCLEAN. IF THE THREE EXAMINED THEMSELVES AND WERE FOUND TO BE CLEAN, THEY ARE ALL UNCLEAN. TO WHAT MAY THIS BE COMPARED? TO AN UNCLEAN HEAP12 THAT WAS MIXED UP WITH TWO CLEAN HEAPS, WHERE, IF THEY EXAMINED ONE OF THEM AND FOUND IT TO BE CLEAN, IT IS CLEAN WHILE THE TWO OTHERS ARE UNCLEAN; IF THEY EXAMINED TWO OF THE HEAPS AND FOUND THEM TO BE CLEAN, THEY ARE CLEAN WHILE THE THIRD ONE IS UNCLEAN; AND IF THEY EXAMINED THE THREE AND THEY WERE FOUND TO BE CLEAN, THEY ARE ALL UNCLEAN; SO R. MEIR, FOR R. MEIR RULED: ANY OBJECT THAT IS IN A PRESUMPTIVE STATE OF UNCLEANNESS ALWAYS REMAINS UNCLEAN UNTIL IT IS KNOWN TO YOU WHERE THE UNCLEANNESS IS. BUT THE SAGES RULED: ONE CONTINUES THE EXAMINATION OF THE HEAP UNTIL ONE REACHES BEDROCK OR VIRGIN SOIL.13 GEMARA. Why is it that in the first clause14 no distinction is made15 while in the final clause16 a distinction is made? — R. Ammi replied: The former is a case where the women were interlocked.17 IF ONE OF THEM EXAMINED HERSELF etc. What need was there for stating, 'TO WHAT MAY THIS BE COMPARED'? — It is this that R. Meir in effect said to the Rabbis: Why is it that in the case of blood you do not differ from me18 while in that of a heap you differ?19 — And the Rabbis?20 — There [the heap may be regarded as clean] since it might well be assumed that a raven had carried away the piece of corpse, but here, whence21 could the blood have come?22 It was taught: R. Meir stated, It once happened that a sycamore tree at Kefar Saba, held to be in a presumptive state of uncleanness, was examined and no object of uncleanness was found. After a time the wind blew upon it and uprooted it when the skull of a corpse was found stuck in its root.23 They24 answered him: 'Do you adduce proof from there? It might be suggested that the examination was not thorough enough'.25 It was taught: R. Jose stated, It once happened that a cave at Shihin, held to be in a presumptive state of uncleanness, was examined until ground, that was as smooth as a finger nail26 was reached, but no unclean object was found. After a time labourers entered it to shelter from27 rain, and chopping with their axes found a mortar full of bones.28 They29 answered him: 'Do you adduce proof from there? It might be suggested that the examination was not thorough enough'.30 It was taught: Abba Saul stated, It once happened that a clod at Beth Horon was held in a presumptive state of uncleanness, and the Sages could not properly examine it because its area was extensive.31 But there was an old man in the place32 whose name was R. Joshua b. Hananiah and he said to them, 'Bring me some sheets'. They brought to him sheets and he soaked them in water and then spread them over the clod.33 The clean area34 remained dry while the unclean area35 became moist. And, having examined the latter, they found a large pit full of bones. One taught: That was the pit which Ishmael the son of Nethaniah had filled with slain bodies, as it is written, Now the pit wherein Ishmael cast all the dead bodies of the men whom he had slain by the hand36 of Gedaliah.37 But was it Gedaliah that killed them? Was it not in fact Ishmael that killed them?38 — But owing to the fact that he39 should have taken note of the advice of Johanan the son of Kareah40 and did not do so Scripture regards him as though he had killed them. Raba observed: As to slander, though one should not believe41 it one should nevertheless take note of it. There were certain Galileans about whom a rumour was spread that they killed a person. They came to R. Tarfon and said to him, 'Will the Master hide us?' 'How', he replied, 'should I act? Should I not hide you, they42 would see you.43 Should I hide you, I would be acting contrary to the statement of the Rabbis,44 "As to slander, though one should not believe45 it, one should take note of it".46 Go you and hide yourselves'. And the Lord said unto Moses: Fear him not'.47 Consider: Sihon and Og were brothers, for a Master stated, 'Sihon and Og were the sons of Ahijah the son of Shamhazai',48 then why was it that he feared Og while he did not fear Sihon? R. Johanan citing R. Simeon b. Yohai replied: From the answer that was given49 to50 that righteous man51 you may understand what was in his mind.52 He thought: Peradventure the merit of our father Abraham will stand him53 by, for it is said, And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew,54 in connection with which R. Johanan explained: This refers to Og who escaped the fate of the generation of the flood.55 Our Rabbis taught:56 If a [woman's] bloodstain was lost in a garment57 one must apply to it58 seven substances59 and thus neutralize it. R. Simeon b. Eleazar ruled: To Part b Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files The woman that was nearest to the wall. Sc. the one under whom the blood was found (cf. prev. n.) and the middle one. The woman furthest from the wall. The one mentioned and the middle one. The woman that was nearest to the wall. Sep. edd. of the Mishnah read, 'R. Judah said, When'. That IF IT WAS FOUND UNDER THE OUTER ONE… THE INNER ONE IS CLEAN. On entering the bed. So that the inner one never passed the spot where the blood was found. Lit., 'the way over it'. The inner two thus passing over the place of the outer one. Even the middle and the inner one, since it is possible that either discharged the blood when she was passing over that spot. One that contained a piece of corpse of the minimum size of an olive. And if no uncleanness can be found even there, it may be presumed that the heap is clean. The previous Mishnah, supra 60b. Between blood found under the middle, the inner or the outer woman. Our Mishnah. As they were so close to each other it is quite possible for the blood of the one to be found under the other. Agreeing that if the three women examined themselves and were found to be clean, they are all unclean. Maintaining that, if the examination was continued down to bedrock or virgin soil and no trace of corpse was found, the heap may be regarded as clean despite the presumptive existence of a piece of corpse in one of the heaps. On what ground do they maintain their view? If all the women are clean. Hence the ruling that they are all unclean. This, in the opinion of R. Meir, proves that an examination that revealed no unclean object is no evidence of cleanness. The Rabbis who disagreed with him. Lit., 'they did not examine all its requirement'. Sc. that was never cultivated. Lit., 'on account of'. Cf. supra p. 431, n. II mut. mut. The Rabbis who disagreed with him. Lit., 'they did not examine all its requirement'. Lit., 'much'. Lit., 'there'. Lit., 'them'. The soil of which had never been dug and was, therefore, hard and impervious to the moisture from the sheets. Which contained corpses and which, having been dug, consisted of loose earth that absorbed the moisture. E.V., 'side'. Jer. XLI, 9. Why then was it stated, 'By the hand of Gedaliah'? Gedaliah. Who told him that Simeon b. Nethaniah wished to kill him. V. Jer. XL, 13ff. Lit., 'accept'. The avengers of the blood. And execute vengeance. Lit., 'surely the Rabbis said'. Lit., 'accept'. And in case the report about you is true, I have no right to shield you. Num. XXI, 34. One of the fallen angels referred to in Gen. VI, 2, 4 as 'sons of God' or 'Nephilim'. By God. Lit., 'of'. Moses. Lit., 'heart'. Og. Gen. XIV, 13. Cf. Zeb. 113b. The following Baraithas have been suggested to the compiler by the law supra concerning heaps in which an unclean object had been lost beyond recovery. By falling, for instance, into water or was soiled with the blood of an animal. Lit., causes to pass'. Enumerated in next Mishnah. Tractate List / Glossary / / Bible Reference ### Niddah 61b One must examine it in small sections.1 If semen was lost in it, when new it should be examined with a needle,2 and when worn out it should be examined in sunlight.3 One taught: No section need be smaller than three fingerbreadths. Our Rabbis taught: A garment in which kil'ayim4 was lost5 may not be sold to an idolater,6 nor may one make of it a packsaddle for an ass, but it may be made into7 a shroud for a corpse. R. Joseph observed: This8 implies that the commandments will be abolished in the Hereafter.9 Said Abaye (or as some say R. Dimi) to him: But did not R. Manni10 in the name of R. Jannai state, 'This8 was learnt only in regard to the time of the lamentations11 but for burial12 this is forbidden'?13 — The other replied: But was it not stated in connection with it, 'R. Johanan ruled: Even for burial'? And thereby R. Johanan followed his previously expressed view, for R. Johanan stated: 'What is the purport of the Scriptural text, Free14 among the dead?15 As soon as a man dies he is free from the commandments'. Rafram b. Papa citing R. Hisda ruled: A garment in which kil'ayim was lost may be dyed16 and17 it is then permitted to be worn.18 Said Raba to Rafram b. Papa: Whence does the old man derive this?19 The other replied: It is in our Mishnah, for we have learnt, ONE CONTINUES THE EXAMINATION OF THE HEAP UNTIL ONE REACHES BEDROCK; and if it20 is not there, it is obviously assumed that a raven had carried it away. Here too, dye does not have the same effect on wool and flax and, since no [difference could be] discerned,21 it may well be assumed [that the compromising threads] had dropped out. R. Aha son of R. Yeba citing Mar Zutra ruled: If a man inserted flaxen threads in his woollen garment and then pulled them out but is not sure whether he pulled them [all] out or not, it is quite proper [for him to wear the garment]. What is the reason? — Pentateuchally, since it is written sha'atnez22 the prohibition does not apply unless the material was hackled, spun and woven,23 but it is only the Rabbis who imposed a prohibition on it,24 and since the man is not quite sure about the pulling out of the threads the garment is permitted. R. Ashi demurred: Might it not be suggested that it25 must be either hackled or spun or woven? — The law, however, is in agreement with Mar Zutra, because the All Merciful expressed them in one word.23 Our Rabbis taught: A dyed garment is susceptible to the uncleanness of a bloodstain. R. Nathan b. Joseph ruled: It is not susceptible to the uncleanness of a stain, for dyed garments were ordained for women only in order to relax the law in regard to their bloodstains. 'Were ordained'! Who26 ordained them? — Rather read: For dyed garments were permitted to women only in order to relax the law in regard to their bloodstains. 'Were permitted'! Does this then imply that they were once forbidden? — Yes, for we have learnt: At the time of the Vespasian invasion they27 prohibited the wearing of garlands by bridegrooms and the beating of drums at weddings. They also desired to prohibit dyed garments, but felt that it was better not to do so,28 in order to relax the law in regard to their bloodstains. MISHNAH. SEVEN SUBSTANCES MUST BE APPLIED TO A STAIN:29 TASTELESS SPITTLE,30 THE LIQUID OF CRUSHED BEANS, URINE, NATRON, LYE, - To Next Folio - Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files The size of each section is given presently. Dried up semen offers some resistance to its penetration. When holding up the garment to the light the place of the semen appears darker than the rest of it. A new garment, however, whose texture is close would not show up such a stain even in front of the light. V. Glos. Sc. it was known that a thread of wool had been woven into a garment of flax or a thread of flax into a garment of wool but the thread could not be traced so as to be extracted. Since he might re-sell it to an Israelite. Lit., 'makes of it'. The permissibility to use kil'ayim for a shroud. At the resurrection. Had they remained in force the revived dead (cf. prev. n) would he transgressing the law of kil'ayim. Var. lec., Ammi. Lit., 'to lament for him'. Lit., 'to bury him'. How then can R. Joseph derive from this ruling that 'the commandments will be abolished in the Hereafter'? E.V., 'set apart'. Ps. LXXXVIII, 6. As the colour effect of dye on wool is different from that on flax the one could be distinguished and separated from the other. If the same shade of colour is shown throughout. The assumption being that the threads of the other kind have somehow dropped out of the texture. Cf. prev. n. The unclean object. Even after the dye had been applied. Deut. XXII, 11. E.V., 'mingled stuff'. Shu'a, tawui and nuz, three words Rabbinically assumed to make up the word sha'atnez. On a material that does not satisfy all the three requirements. A material that is to be forbidden as Kil'ayim. Lit., 'what'. The Rabbis. Lit., 'they said that was better'. If it is desired to ascertain whether it is blood or dye. This is explained presently. Tractate List / Glossary / / Bible Reference |  |  |