|  |  | Previous Folio / Kethuboth Directory / Tractate List / Navigate Site # Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Kethuboth ### Folio 4a and he performs the dutiful marital act1 and [then] separates [himself from her].2 And [then] he keeps the seven days of the [wedding-]feast3 and after that he keeps the seven days of mourning.3 And [during] all these days he sleeps among the men and she sleeps among the women.4 And they do not withhold ornaments5 from the bride all the thirty days.6 [But that is] only [if] the father of the bridegroom or the mother of the bride [died], because there is [then] no one who should prepare for them [for the wedding], but not [in case of] the reverse.7 Rafram b. Papa said [that] R. Hisda said: They taught [this] only when water had [already] been put on the meat, but if water had not [yet] been put on the meat, it is to be sold. Raba said: And in a city, although water had been put on the meat, it is sold.8 R. Papa said: And in a village, although water had not been put on the meat, it is not sold.9 But where [then] will you find [the rule] of R. Hisda [to apply]? Said R. Ashi: For instance, [in] Matha Mehasia,10 which is neither a city nor a village.11 It has been taught according to R. Hisda: If his bread was baked and his meat prepared and his wine mixed and water had been put on the meat and the father of the bridegroom or the mother of the bride died, they bring the dead [person] into a room and the bridegroom and the bride into the bridal chamber, and he performs the dutiful marital act and [then] separates [himself from her]. And [then] he keeps the seven days of the [wedding-]feast and after that he keeps the seven days of mourning. And all these days he sleeps among the men and she sleeps among the women. And so [also] if his wife became menstruous does he sleep among the men and she sleeps among the women. And they do not withhold ornaments from the bride all the thirty days. In any case he must not perform the [first] marital act on the eve of Sabbath or in the night following the Sabbath. The Master said [above]: 'He sleeps among the men and she sleeps among the women.' This supports R. Johanan, for R. Johanan said: Although they said [that] there is no mourning on a festival, yet matters of privacy he keeps.12 R. Joseph the son of Raba lectured in the name of Raba: They taught13 only if he had yet no intercourse [with her],14 but if he had [already] intercourse, his wife may sleep with him.15 But here we deal with a case when he had intercourse, and still it teaches [that] he sleeps among the men and she sleeps among the women? — When did he16 say [it]? With regard to his wife becoming menstruous. But it says. 'And so [also if his wife became menstruous]'!17 To Part b Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files The first intercourse. [Immediately after which the burial takes place. The death of one of these parents is thus the constraint referred to. Where the death occurred on Monday the marriage is to take place immediately so as to avoid delay in the funeral.] V. infra. So that they have no intercourse. 'Ornaments means both jewellery and toilet requisites. [The thirty days of semi-mourning that follow the death of a near relative.] These rules do not apply. Because it can be sold. Because it cannot be sold. A place near Sura. Lit., 'Which is excluded from a city and excluded from a village'. [I.e., mourning customs that affect domestic relations, and thus involve no outward manifestations of grief, must be observed.] That he sleeps among the men and she sleeps among the women. And he may feel tempted. In one room. Raba And this would seem to show that there is no difference between the time of mourning and the period of menstruation. Tractate List / Glossary / / Bible Reference ### Kethuboth 4b — Thus he1 means to say:2 And so [also], if his wife became menstruous and he had not yet had intercourse [with her] he sleeps among the men and she sleeps among the women. Is this [then] to say that he treats mourning more lightly than menstruation?3 Surely. R. Isaac the son of Hanina said that R. Huna said: All kinds of work4 which a wife performs for her husband, a menstruant5 may perform for her husband, except the mixing of the cup6 and the making7 of the bed and the washing of his face, his hands and his feet;8 while with regard to mourning it has been taught: Although they9 said: No man has a right to force his wife10 to paint [her eyes] or rouge [her face], in truth11 they said: She mixes him the cup12 and she makes him the bed and she washes his face, his hands and his feet?13 — [This is] not difficult; here14 [it speaks] of his mourning,15 there16 [it speaks] of her mourning.17 But it says:18 'The father of the bridegroom or the mother of the bride [died]'?19 — This refers to the rest.20 But is there a difference between his mourning and her mourning? Surely it has been taught: If a man's father-in-law or mother-in-law died,21 he cannot force his wife to paint [her eyes] and to rouge [her face]. but he lowers his bed22 and keeps mourning with her. And so [also] if a woman's father-in-law or mother-in-law died23 she is not allowed to paint [her eyes] and to rouge [her face], but she lowers her bed and keeps mourning with him!24 — Teach with reference to his mourning 'he sleeps among the men and his wife sleeps among the women'.25 But it says: 'And so [also]'?26 — This refers to painting and rouging.27 But it says 'with him'! Does this not mean,28 with him in one bed? — No, [it means] with him in one house, and as Rab said to his son Hiyya: In her presence29 keep mourning, in her absence do not keep mourning.30 R. Ashi said: Can you compare this mourning31 with ordinary mourning?32 Ordinary mourning is strict and one would not deal lightly33 with it. [But] this mourning, since the Rabbis were lenient [about it], one might deal lightly with it. What is the leniency? Shall I say. because it says he performs the dutiful act of marriage and separates [himself from her]? That is34 because the mourning has not rested upon him35 yet; [namely] if according to R. Eliezer, [the mourning does not begin] until the body has been taken out of the house,36 and if according to R. Joshua, [the mourning does not begin] until the golel37 has been closed!38 — But [the leniency is this,] because it says: He keeps [first] the seven days of the [wedding-]feast and after that he keeps the seven days of mourning. The Master said: 'In any case he must not perform the [first] marital act on the eve of Sabbath or in the night following the Sabbath. It is right [that he may not perform it] on the eve of Sabbath, because of a wound.39 But in the night following the Sabbath, why not? — Said R. Zera: - To Next Folio - Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files The Tanna of the cited Baraitha. Lit., 'thus he says.' Lit., 'that mourning is lighter to him (the husband) than menstruation'. The case of menstruation is limited to where no intercourse had taken place. Lit., 'all works'. I.e., the wife during menstruation. I.e., pouring out of wine: v. supra p. 10 n. 6. Lit., 'spreading.' Because the nearness may bring temptation: v. infra 61a. The Rabbis. When she is mourning for a parent. Cf. B.M. 60a: wherever an opinion is introduced with the words, 'in truth they said,'it means to say that it is an established legal rule. Cf. infra 61a. This would show that he treats mourning less lightly than menstruation! Supra 4a: 'he sleeps among the men and she sleeps among the women.' And she might be tempted. Lit., 'here.' In the Baraitha just quoted. And she would resist temptation. Lit., 'it teaches.' This shows that there is no difference between his mourning and her mourning. Lit., 'When it teaches, on the rest. — I.e., this refers to the other points mentioned in the Baraitha on 4a. Lit., 'he whose father-in-law or mother-in-law died.' Placing the mattresses on or near the floor was a sign of mourning. Lit., 'she whose father-in-law or mother-in-law died.' Since it does not state in the latter case that he has to sleep among the men etc., it shows that there is no difference between his mourning and her mourning. And so there would be a difference between his mourning and her mourning. In his mourning there would be the precaution just stated, while in her mourning that precaution would not be required. This would show that there is no difference between his mourning and her mourning. In either case she does not paint or rouge. Lit., 'what not?' In the presence of Hiyya's wife who was in mourning. I.e., 'with him' (or 'with her') shews that she keeps mourning with him in his presence and he keeps mourning with her in her presence. Lit., 'the mourning of here', namely the mourning immediately before the marriage; v. supra 3b (bottom) and 4a. Lit., 'mourning of the world.' Lit., 'and one would not come to disregard it.' Lit., 'there'. Has not begun yet. Lit., 'until it goes out from the door of the house.' The covering stone of a tomb. 'To close the golel' means 'to close the tomb with the golel,' v. Nazir (Sonc. ed.) p. 302, n. 5. Cf. M.K. 27a. He makes a wound through the first intercourse. Tractate List / Glossary / / Bible Reference |  |  |