|  |  | Previous Folio / Berakoth Contents / Tractate List / Navigate Site # Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Berakoth ### Folio 27a Rabbis? — You conclude then that the point mentioned is not included in the UNTIL? Look now at the next clause: THE TIME FOR THE ADDITIONAL PRAYERS IS THE WHOLE DAY; R. JUDAH SAYS, TILL SEVEN HOURS, and it has been taught: If a man had two Tefillahs to say, one for musaf1 and one for minhah,1 he says first the minhah prayer and afterwards the musaf one, because the former is daily and the latter is not daily. R. Judah. however, says: He says the musaf one and afterwards the minhah one, because the [time for] the former [soon] lapses, while the [time for] the latter does not [so soon] lapse.2 Now if you say that the point mentioned is included in the UNTIL there is no difficulty: on this supposition you can find a time which is appropriate to both of the Tefillahs.3 But if you say that the point mentioned is not included in the UNTIL where can you find a time which is appropriate to both the Tefillahs?4 As soon as the time for minhah has arrived, the time for musaf has passed! — What then? You say that the point mentioned is included in the UNTIL? Then there is the [afore-mentioned] difficulty of the first clause — what difference is there between R. Judah and the Rabbis? — Do you think that this MIDDLE OF THE AFTERNOON mentioned by R. Judah means the second half? It means the first half, and what he meant is this: When does the first half [of the second part of the afternoon] end and the second half begin? At the end of eleven hours less a quarter. R. Nahman said: We also have learnt: R. Judah b. Baba testified five things — that they instruct a girl-minor to refuse,5 that a woman may remarry on the evidence of one witness [that her husband is dead],6 that a cock was stoned in Jerusalem because it killed a human being,7 that wine forty days old was poured as a drink-offering on the altar,8 and that the morning daily offering was brought at four hours.9 This proves, does it not, that the point mentioned is included in the UNTIL? It does. R. Kahana said: The halachah follows R. Jose because we have learnt in the Select Tractate10 as taught by him. 'And concerning the regular daily offering that it was brought at four hours'. Who is the authority for what we have learnt: And as the sun waxed hot it melted:11 this was at four hours. You say at four hours; or is it not so, but at six hours? When it says 'in the heat of the day',12 here we have the expression for six hours. What then am I to make of 'as the sun waxed hot it melted'? At four hours. Whose opinion does this represent? Apparently neither R. Judah's nor the Rabbis'. For if we go by R. Judah, up to four hours also is still morning;13 if we go by the Rabbis, up to six hours is also still morning! — If you like I can say it represents the opinion of R. Judah. and if you like of the Rabbis. 'If you like I can say it represents the opinion of the Rabbis': Scripture says, morning by morning,14 thus dividing the morning into two.15 'If you like I can say R. Judah': this extra 'morning' indicates that they began [gathering] an hour beforehand.16 At any rate all agree that 'as the sun waxed hot it melted' refers to four hours. How does the text imply this? R. Aha b. Jacob said: The text says, As the sun waxed hot it melted. Which is the hour when the sun is hot and the shade is cool? You must say, at four hours. THE AFTERNOON TEFILLAH TILL EVENING. R. Hisda said to R. Isaac: In the other case [of the morning offering] R. Kahana said that the halachah follows R. Judah because we have learnt in the Select Tractate as [taught] by him. What is the decision in this case? — He was silent, and gave him no answer at all. Said R. Hisda: Let us see for ourselves. Seeing that Rab says the Sabbath Tefillah on the eve of Sabbath while it is still day, we conclude that the halachah follows R. Judah!17 — On the contrary, from the fact that R. Huna and the Rabbis did not pray till night time, we conclude that the halachah does no follow R. Judah! Seeing then that it has not been stated definitely that the law follows either one or the other, if one follows the one he is right and if one follows the other he is right. Rab was once at the house of Genibah and he said the Sabbath Tefillah on the eve of Sabbath, and R. Jeremiah b. Abba was praying behind Rab and Rab finished but did not interrupt the prayer of R. Jeremiah.18 Three things are to be learnt from this. One is that a man may say the Sabbath Tefillah on the eve of Sabbath. The second is that a disciple may pray behind his master. The third is that it is forbidden to pass in front of one praying. But is that so? Did not R. Ammi and R. Assi use to pass? — R. Ammi and R. Assi used to pass outside a four cubit limit. But how could R. Jeremiah act thus, seeing that Rab Judah has said in the name of Rab: A man should never pray To Part b Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files V. Glos. Musaf can be said up to seven hours and minhah up to eleven hours less a quarter. Viz., the second half of the seventh hour. Because when R. Judah says that the time for musaf is 'till the seventh hour', he must exclude the whole of the seventh hour itself. If a girl-minor who has lost her father is betrothed by her mother, when she becomes mature she can refuse to continue to be bound to her husband, and on some occasions the Beth din instruct her to refuse. V. Glos. s.v. mi'un; Yeb. 109a. V. Yeb. 122a. It pierced the skull of a child. Being no longer 'new wine', v. 'Ed. VI, 1. As R. Judah says; which shows that he included the 'four hours' in the 'until'. Behirta (selected). Eduyyoth is so called because all its statements are accepted as halachah; v. Introduction to 'Ed. (Sonc. ed.). Ex. XVI, 21. Gen. XVIII, 1. Here the word 'day' is used, implying that it was hot everywhere, and not only in the sun, v. infra. It says that the Israelites gathered the manna every morning; why then had they stopped at this hour if it was still morning? Ex. loc. cit. Lit., 'in the morning, in the morning'. And the Israelites gathered in the first 'morning'. Thus finishing in the third hour of the day. That after the middle of the afternoon-tide, the afternoon Tefillah can no longer be said, and evening begins. By passing in front of him to resume his seat. Tractate List / Glossary / / Bible Reference ### Berakoth 27b either next to this master1 or behind his master?2 And it has been taught: R. Eleazar says: One who prays behind his master, and one who gives [the ordinary] greeting to his master3 and one who returns a greeting to his master4 and one who joins issue with [the teaching of] the Academy of his master and one who says something which he has not heard from his master causes the Divine Presence to depart from Israel? — R. Jeremiah b. Abba is different, because he was a disciple-colleague; and that is why R. Jeremiah b. Abba said to Rab: Have you laid aside,5 and he replied: Yes, I have; and he did not say to him, Has the Master laid aside. But had he laid aside? Has not R. Abin related that once Rab said the Sabbath Tefillah on the eve of Sabbath and he went into the bath6 and came out and taught us our section, while it was not yet dark? — Raba said: He went in merely to perspire, and it was before the prohibition had been issued.7 But still, is this the rule?8 Did not Abaye allow R. Dimi b. Levai to fumigate some baskets?9 — In that case there was a mistake.10 But can [such] a mistake be rectified? Has not Abidan said: Once [on Sabbath] the sky became overcast with clouds and the congregation thought that is was night-time and they went into the synagogue and said the prayers for the termination of Sabbath, and then the clouds scattered and the sun came out and they came and asked Rabbi, and he said to them, Since they prayed, they have prayed?11 — A congregation is different, since we avoid troubling them [as far as possible].12 R. Hiyya b. Abin said: Rab used to say the Sabbath Tefillah on the eve of Sabbath;13 R. Josiah said the Tefillah of the outgoing of Sabbath on Sabbath. When Rab said the Sabbath Tefillah on the eve of Sabbath, did he say sanctification over wine or not? — Come and hear: for R. Nahman said in the name of Samuel: A man may say the Tefillah of Sabbath on the eve of Sabbath, and say sanctification over wine; and the law is as stated by him. R. Josiah used to say the end-of-Sabbath Tefillah while it was yet Sabbath. Did he say habdalah over wine or did he not say habdalah over wine? — Come and hear: for Rab Judah said in the name of Samuel: A man may say the end-of-Sabbath Tefillah while it is yet Sabbath and say habdalah over wine. R. Zera said in the name of R. Assi reporting R. Eleazar who had it from R. Hanina in the name of Rab: At the side of this pillar R. Ishmael son of R. Jose said the Sabbath Tefillah on the eve of Sabbath. When 'Ulla came he reported that it was at the side of a palm tree and not at the side of a pillar, and that it was not R. Ishmael son of R. Jose but R. Eleazar son of R. Jose, and that it was not the Sabbath Tefillah on the eve of Sabbath but the end-of-Sabbath Tefillah on Sabbath. THE EVENING PRAYER HAS NO FIXED LIMIT. What is the meaning of HAS NO FIXED LIMIT? Shall I say it means that if a man wants he can say the Tefillah any time in the night? Then let it state, 'The time for the evening Tefillah is the 'whole night'! — But what in fact is the meaning of HAS NO FIXED LIMIT? It is equivalent to saying, The evening Tefillah is optional. For Rab Judah said in the name of Samuel: With regard to the evening Tefillah, Rabban Gamaliel says it is compulsory, whereas R. Joshua says it is optional. Abaye says: The halachah is as stated by the one who says it is compulsory; Raba says the halachah follows the one who says it is optional. It is related that a certain disciple came before R. Joshua and asked him, Is the evening Tefillah compulsory or optional? He replied: It is optional. He then presented himself before Rabban Gamaliel and asked him: Is the evening Tefillah compulsory or optional? He replied: It is compulsory. But, he said, did not R. Joshua tell me that it is optional? He said: Wait till the champions14 enter the Beth ha-Midrash. When the champions came in, someone rose and inquired, Is the evening Tefillah compulsory or optional? Rabban Gamaliel replied: It is compulsory. Said Rabban Gamaliel to the Sages: Is there anyone who disputes this? R. Joshua replied to him: No. He said to him: Did they not report you to me as saying that it is optional? He then went on: Joshua, stand up and let them testify against you! R. Joshua stood up and said: Were I alive and he [the witness] dead, the living could contradict the dead. But now that he is alive and I am alive, how can the living contradict the living?15 Rabban Gamaliel remained sitting and expounding and R. Joshua remained standing, until all the people there began to shout and say to Huzpith the turgeman,16 Stop! and he stopped. They then said: How long is he [Rabban Gamaliel] to go on insulting him [R. Joshua]? On New Year last year he insulted him;17 he insulted him in the matter of the firstborn in the affair of R. Zadok;18 now he insults him again! Come, let us depose him! Whom shall we appoint instead? We can hardly appoint R. Joshua, because he is one of the parties involved. We can hardly appoint R. Akiba because perhaps Rabban Gamaliel will bring a curse on him because he has no ancestral merit. Let us then appoint R. Eleazar b. Azariah, who is wise and rich and the tenth in descent from Ezra. He is wise, so that if anyone puts a question to him he will be able to answer it. He is rich, so that if occasion arises for paying court19 to Caesar he will be able to do so. He is tenth in descent from Ezra, so that he has ancestral merit and he [Rabban Gamaliel] cannot bring a curse on him. They went and said to him: Will your honour consent to become head of the Academy? He replied: I will go and consult the members of my family. He went and consulted his wife. She said to him: - To Next Folio - Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files Because he seems to put himself on a level with him. This also is a sign of pride. Or perhaps, because he seems to be bowing down to him (Tosaf.). I.e., he says, 'Peace upon thee' simply instead of 'Pace upon thee, my master'. Omitted by Alfasi and Asheri. Have you laid aside all work, since you said the Sabbath Tefillah so early? Lit., 'have you made the distinction' (sc. between weekdays and Sabbath)? An act forbidden on the Sabbath. Against bathing and perspiring on Sabbath, v. Shab. 40a. That work may not be done after saying the Sabbath prayer early on Sabbath eve. After saying the Sabbath prayer. It was a dark afternoon, and he said the Sabbath prayer thinking that Sabbath had already commenced. And since the prayer need not be repeated, work in the case of Sabbath eve ought to be forbidden! To repeat the Tefillah. Before evening set in. Lit., 'masters of bucklers', 'shield-bearers', i.e., great scholars. The Rabbis often applied warlike terms to halachic discussion. I.e., how can I deny that I said this? Lit., 'interpreter', the man who expounded the ideas of the teacher to the public. The more usual later name is Amora. By telling him to appear before him on the Day of Atonement with his staff and wallet. V. R.H. 25a. V. Bek. 36a. Lit., 'serve'. Tractate List / Glossary / / Bible Reference |  |  |