|  |  | Previous Folio / Sanhedrin Directory / Tractate List / Navigate Site # Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Sanhedrin ### Folio 70a since many frequent her in sin,1 but that it is a divine decree: 'a son', but not a daughter. MISHNAH. WHEN DOES HE BECOME LIABLE? — WHEN HE EATS A TARTEMAR2 OF MEAT AND DRINKS HALF A LOG 3 OF ITALIAN WINE.4 R. JOSE SAID: A MINA5 OF FLESH AND A LOG OF WINE. IF HE ATE IT IN A COMPANY [CELEBRATING] A RELIGIOUS ACT, OR GATHERED FOR THE PURPOSE OF INTERCALATING THE MONTH;6 IF HE ATE THE SECOND TITHE7 IN JERUSALEM;8 IF HE ATE THE NEBELOTH9 OR TEREFOTH,10 ABOMINABLE AND CREEPING THINGS,11 OR TEBEL,12 OR THE FIRST TITHE FROM WHICH TERUMAH HAD NOT BEEN SEPARATED,13 OR UNREDEEMED SECOND TITHE,14 OR UNREDEEMED SACRED FOOD;15 IF HIS EATING INVOLVED A RELIGIOUS ACT OR A TRANSGRESSION;16 IF HE ATE ANY FOOD BUT MEAT OR DRANK ANY DRINK BUT WINE, HE DOES NOT BECOME A 'STUBBORN AND REBELLIOUS SON THEREBY, UNLESS HE EATS MEAT AND DRINKS WINE, FOR IT IS WRITTEN, [THIS OUR SON IS STUBBORN AND REBELLIOUS, HE WILL NOT OBEY OUR VOICE;] HE IS A GLUTTON [ZOLEL] AND A DRUNKARD [WE-SOBE].17 AND THOUGH THERE IS NO ABSOLUTE PROOF, THERE IS A SUGGESTION FOR THIS, AS IT IS WRITTEN, BE NOT AMONG WINEBIBBERS [BE-SOBE]; AMONG GLUTTONOUS EATERS OF FLESH [BE-ZOLELE].18 GEMARA. R. Zera said: I do not know what is this tartemar; but since R. Jose doubled the measure of wine, he must have doubled that of meat too; hence the tartemar is half a mina. R. Hanan b. Moladah said in R. Huna's name: He is not liable unless he buys meat and wine cheaply and consumes them,19 for it is written. He is a Zolel.20 R. Hanan b. Moladah also said in R. Huna's name: He is not liable unless he eats raw meat and drinks undiluted wine.21 But that is not so, for did not Rabbah and R. Joseph both say: If he ate raw meat or drank undiluted wine, he does not become a 'stubborn and rebellious son'? — Rabina answered, by 'undiluted wine' insufficiently diluted wine is meant, and raw meat means only partially cooked, like charred meat eaten by thieves.22 Rabbah and R. Joseph both said: If he eats pickled meat or drinks 'wine from the vat', [i. e., new wine before it has matured], he does not become a stubborn and rebellious son'.23 We learnt elsewhere: On the eve of the ninth of Ab24 one must not partake of two courses, neither eat meat nor drink wine.25 And a Tanna taught: But he may eat pickled meat and drink new wine.26 Now, what length of time must elapse before it is regarded as pickled meat [as opposed to fresh meat]? — R. Hanina b. Kahana said: As long as the flesh of the peace offering may be eaten.27 And how long is it called new wine? — As lone as it is in its first stage of fermentation; and it has been taught: wine in the first stage of fermentation does not come within the prohibition against uncovered liquid:28 and how long is this first stage? — Three days. Now, what is the law here? — There [the prohibition of eating meat on the eve on the month of Ab] is on account of joy: as long as it is as the flesh of a peace offering, it yields the joy of meat eating. Here, however, it is on account of its seductiveness, and when a short period has passed, it no longer attracts, whilst wine is unattractive until it is forty days old.29 R. Hanan said: The only purpose for which wine was created was to comfort mourners and requite the wicked,30 for it is written, Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish [i.e., the wicked], and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.31 R. Isaac said: what is meant by, Look not thou upon the wine when it is red?32 — Look not upon the wine, which reddens the faces of the wicked in this world and makes them pale [with shame] in the next. Raba said: Look not thou upon the wine ki yith'addam: look not upon it, for it leads to bloodshed [dam].33 R. Kahana raised a difficulty; The Bible writes tirash [for wine], but the word is read tirosh.34 — If one has merit, he becomes a leader, if not, he becomes impoverished. Raba raised a difficulty: The Bible writes, [and wine] yeshammah [the heart of man], but it is read yesammah.35 — If one has merit, it gladdens him; if not, it saddens him.36 And thus Raba said: wine and spices have made me wise. R. Amram the son of R. Simeon b. Abba said in R. Hanina's name: What is meant by, Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine?37 — When R. Dimi came,38 he said: In the West it is said, In these verses, the second may be interpreted as explanatory of the first, or vice versa.39 'Ubar the Galilean gave the following exposition: The letter waw [and]40 occurs thirteen times in the passage dealing with wine: And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard: And he drank of the wine and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. And Ham the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon their shoulders, and went backward and covered the nakedness of their father, and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness. And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.41 [With respect to the last verse] Rab and Samuel [differ,] one maintaining that he castrated him, whilst the other says that he sexually abused him. He who maintains that he castrated him, [reasons thus;] Since he cursed him by his fourth son,42 he must have injured him with respect to a fourth son.43 But he who says that he sexually abused him, draws an analogy between 'and he saw' written twice. Here it is written, And Ham the father of Canaan saw the nakedness of his father; whilst elsewhere it is written, And when Shechem the son of Hamor saw her [he took her and lay with her and defiled her].44 Now, on the view that he emasculated him, it is right that he cursed him by his fourth son; but on the view that he abused him, why did he curse his fourth son; he should have cursed him himself? — Both indignities were perpetrated.45 And Noah began to be a husbandman, and he planted a vineyard, — R. Hisda said in R. 'Ukba's name, and others state, Mar 'Ukba said in R. Zakkai's name: The Holy One, blessed be He, said unto Noah: 'Noah, shouldst thou not have taken a warning from Adam, whose transgression was caused by wine?' This agrees with the view that the [forbidden] tree from which Adam ate was a vine. For it has been taught: R. Meir said: That [forbidden] tree from which Adam ate was a vine, To Part b Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files I.e., in her 'ultimate end' she may become a harlot, and cause many to err. V. infra 72a, cf. supra 65b. [G], a weight; v. note 11. A liquid measure equal to the contents (or space occupied by) six eggs. Italian wine was particularly choice (and strong) and drinking such a quantity thereof, might lead him to drunkenness and its consequent vices. But this measure of any other (inferior) wine would be neither so potent nor seductive. The mina, sometimes called the Italian mina, was he equivalent of 1 1/2 Roman pounds. The Roman pound contained 288 scruples, the mina 300 scruples = 12 1/2 ounces. According to the Gemara below, the tartemar was half a mina. The word really means a third, and probably indicated 1/3 Alexandrian mina, which contained 150 denarii, whilst the Hebrew mina (maneh) was only 100 denarii. Cf. Zuckermann: Ueber Talmudische Gewichte und Munzen, p. 8. A religious feast was eaten on such occasions. One tithe of the crops was to be eaten by its owners in Jerusalem; this was called the second tithe (the first being the tithe given to the Levites. cf. Deut. XIV, 26). I.e., if he stole money of the second tithe and purchased meat and wine, which he ate in Jerusalem. Nebelah, pl. nebeloth, is the technical term for an animal that came to its death by any but the prescribed method of slaughter. Terefah, plural terefoth, denotes an animal which having been ritually slaughtered, is found to have been suffering from certain diseases, which render it unfit for food. Which are forbidden, v. Lev. XX, 15, and XI, 10ff, 41ff. Tebel, the crops before the terumoth (v. Glos.) and tithes had been separated. The Levite, to whom the first tithe was given, had to separate a tithe thereof, called the terumah of the tithe, for the priest. If one lived at a distance from Jerusalem, he redeemed the second tithe by setting aside its value, plus a fifth, to be expended in Jerusalem. The second tithe then lost its sanctity and might be eaten anywhere. Food dedicated to sanctuary which had to be redeemed, Lev. XXVII, 19. V. infra 70b. [H] Deut. XXI, 20. Gluttony applies to meat, and drunkenness to wine. [H], Prov. XXIII, 20. For if he has to pay a high price, he may find it difficult to procure them, and is therefore not likely to be led into the evil ways for fear of which he is punished — a striking example of the influence of economies on morals. [H] glutton; by a play on words, this is connected with [H] cheap. This does not really prove the point, but is merely adduced as a support. This is discussed below. Thieves, always fleeing, have no time for properly cooked meat, so they place it hastily on a very hot fire, with the result that it is partly burnt and partly raw. Eating such meat and drinking strong drink is a sign of a voraciousness and drunkenness which justifies fear for his future. V. p. 476. n. 2. The great fast held in memory of the destruction of the Temple. Ta'an. 26b. Ibid. 30a. I.e., two days, which includes that of slaughter. Even if meat was salted for preserving immediately after slaughter, it has the taste of fresh meat for the first two days. For whilst it thus bubbles, it repels snakes. The prohibition of drinking liquid left overnight uncovered was through the fear that a snake might have drunk thereof and in so doing injected some of its poison into it. Since his sin lies not in that he actually eats and drinks, but because he is thereby drawn into evil ways, he is liable only for eating and drinking such food as can have a strong attraction for him. Meat more than a day, and wine less than forty days old, lack that attraction. The wicked are thereby rewarded for the little good they do in this world (Rashi). Prov. XXXI, 6. Ibid. XXIII, 31. [H] translated 'when it is red,' is taken as reflexive of [H] 'blood'. [H], may mean 'thou shalt become impoverished': [H], 'thou shalt become a leader', a contraction of [H]. Thus the written word and the actual reading are contradictory. [H] means 'maketh glad'; [H] a play on the word [H] ([H]) maketh desolate. I.e., in moderation it is good; in excess, it wastes one's life. Prov. XXIII. 29f. V. p. 390, n. 1. The second as explanatory of the first: who have all these evils? — Those who tarry long etc., the second being the cause, the first the effect. Vice versa: for whom is it fitting to tarry long over wine? — For the wicked only (i.e.. those who have the woes, and contentions of a life of wickedness). V. following note. Gen. IX, 20-24. In this passage, the conversive waw occurs thirteen times, in each case followed by the yod of the imperfect. The combination waw yod, ([H]) means 'woe' in Heb. Thirteen woes: so great are the sorrows caused by drunkenness. The sons of Ham were Cush and Mizraim, and Phut and Canaan. Gen. X, 7. Noah cursed Canaan, his fourth son. Ibid. IX, 25ff I.e., by emasculating him, he deprived Noah of the possibility of a fourth son. Ibid. XXXIV, 2. He both castrated and abused his father. Tractate List / Glossary / / Bible Reference ### Sanhedrin 70b for nothing else but wine brings woe to man. R. Judah said: It was the wheat plant,1 for an infant cannot say 'father' and 'mother' until it has tasted of wheat.2 R. Nehemiah said: It was the fig tree, for whereby they transgressed, they were taught to make amends, as it is written, And they sewed fig leaves together.3 The words of King Lemuel, the burden wherewith his mother admonished him.4 R. Johanan said in the name of R. Simeon b. Yohai: This teaches that his mother thrust him against a post5 and said to him, What my son? and what, the son of my womb? and what, the son of my vows? 'What my son?' All know that thy father was a God-fearing man, and therefore they will say that thou inheritest [thy sinfulness] from thy mother.6 'And what, the son of my womb?' All the women of thy father's harem, as soon as they conceived, no longer saw the king, but I forced myself in, so that my child might be vigorous and fair-skinned.7 'And what, the son of my vows?' All the women of thy father's household made vows [praying] that they might bear a son fit for the throne, but I vowed praying that I might bear a son zealous and filled with the knowledge of the Torah and fit for prophecy. It is not for Kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine, nor for princes [to say,] Where is strong drink?8 She spoke thus to him: What hast thou to do with kings who drink wine and say, 'What need have we of God?'9 R. Isaac said: whence do we know that Solomon repented and confessed to his mother [the justice of her rebukes]? — From the verse, Surely, 'I am more brutish than man, and' have not the understanding of a man.10 I am more brutish than a man [ish].11 — that is, than Noah, of whom it is written, And Noah began to be an husbandman [ish];11 'and have not the understanding of a man' [adam]12 — of Adam.13 IF HE ATE IT IN A COMPANY [CELEBRATING] A RELIGIOUS ACT. R. Abbahu said: He is not liable unless he eats in a company consisting entirely of good-for-nothings. But did we not learn, IF HE ATE IT IN A COMPANY [CELEBRATING] A RELIGIOUS ACT … HE DOES NOT BECOME A REBELLIOUS SON THEREBY. Hence, it is only because they were celebrating a religious act, but otherwise, [he becomes a rebellious son] even if they are not all wastrels? — The Mishnah teaches that even if they were all wastrels, yet if they were celebrating a precept, he is not punished.14 OR GATHERED FOR THE PURPOSE OF INTERCALATING THE MONTH. Shall we say that they ate15 meat and wine [on such occasions]? But it has been taught: They ascended16 for it with a meal consisting only of wheat bread and beans. — The Mishnah teaches thus; Though they normally ascended only with wheat bread and beans, whilst he brought up meat and wine and ate, Yet since they were engaged in a religious act, he would not be led astray. Our Rabbis taught; Not less than ten ascend for the purpose of proclaiming the month a full one,17 nor do they ascend for it except with a meal consisting of wheat bread and beans; they ascend only on the evening following the intercalated day, and at night, not by day.18 But has it not been taught: They may not ascend for it by night, but only by day? — It is even as R. Hiyya b. Abba said to his sons: 'Go up there early, and come out early, so that the people may learn of your celebration.'19 IF HE ATE THE SECOND TITHE IN JERUSALEM. For since he eats it in the normal way [i.e.. in Jerusalem], he is not drawn [to wickedness]. IF HE ATE NEBELOTH OR TEREFOTH, ABOMINABLE OR CREEPING THINGS. Raba said: If he eats the flesh of fowl, he does not become a 'stubborn and rebellious son'. But did we not learn: IF HE ATE NEBELOTH OR TEREFOTH, ABOMINABLE OR CREEPING THINGS20 … HE DOES NOT BECOME A 'STUBBORN AND REBELLIOUS SON' THEREBY. [This implies;] but if he ate [the flesh of] clean [fowl], he does? — The Mishnah refers only to the completion [of the necessary amount].21 IF HIS EATING INVOLVED A RELIGIOUS ACT OR A TRANSGRESSION. By a RELIGIOUS ACT is meant the meal for comforting mourners;22 A TRANSGRESSION means eating on a public fast day.23 And what is the reason?24 — The Bible saith, he will not obey our voice:25 this excludes disobedience of God's voice.26 IF HE ATE ANY FOOD BUT MEAT, OR DRANK ANY DRINK BUT WINE ETC. IF HE ATE ANY FOOD BUT MEAT; this includes even pressed figs from Keilah.27 OR DRANK ANY DRINK BUT WINE: this includes even [liquid] honey and milk. For it has been taught: If one ate pressed figs from Keilah and drank honey or milk and then entered the Sanctuary, - To Next Folio - Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files In which case, [H], (tree) in the Heb. must be understood as a generic noun for plant life. There is also a legend that in the distant future the wheat shall grow as tall as a palm tree; in the Garden of Eden story it is therefore called a tree on account of its future state. Thus, wheat is the first thing to induce knowledge. Gen. III, 7. Prov. XXXI, 1. To have him flagellated for his over-indulgence in worldly pleasures (Rashi). I.e., why should you thus be called my son? And now he was employing his very strength and beauty in evil courses. Ibid. 3. By a play on words [H] meaning 'not' is connected with 'to God', Lemuel read as lemo-el, ([H]), 'to God', the Heb. letters being the same, differing only in the vowels Ibid. XXX, 2. [H] [H] Both of whom were ensnared by wine, yet have I drank more than they. For in that case, the company will not cause him to err, seeing that they are thus engaged. But on the other hand, even if not engaged in celebrating a precept, if there is a single decent man amongst them, he may exercise a salutary influence, which may restrain this transgressor from a headlong course of evil. Lit. 'brought up'. V. next note. I.e., of thirty days. This was not for the purpose of a formal declaration, but of making known the decision of the Sanhedrin to the people. In order to give it publicity, all this was done in an upper chamber, hence the use of the verb 'ascended' — when exposed to the public view. This seems superfluous. Tosaf. explains that it might otherwise be thought that 'they ascend only on the evening following the additional day' merely emphasises that it must not be on the evening preceding, but that evening itself is not particularly taught. Lit., 'hear you.' I.e., they were not to wait until it was quite dark, as by then the streets are deserted, therefore they were to go up whilst it was yet day. But the essential ceremony took place at night. They were also to leave the chamber early in the morning: by so doing it became evident that they spent the night in the upper chamber and their purpose in going up also became evident. But if they tarried, it might be thought that they had gone up only in the morning and had some other purpose in view. Denoting also unclean fowls; v. Lev. XI, 13 ff. I.e., if he ate less than a tartemar of permitted flesh, and completed it by eating nebeloth etc. he is not punished. But if the whole tartemar was the flesh of clean fowl he would also be exempt. Though this was only a Rabbinical enactment. For the earlier clause of the Mishnah IF HE ATE IN A COMPANY (CELEBRATING) A RELIGIOUS ACT might be interpreted as referring to a Biblical precept, e.g the eating of the Passover sacrifice. Proclaimed by Rabbis. Though this too is only a Rabbinical ordinance. That the eating of forbidden food does not render one a rebellious son. Deut. XXI, 20. Lit., 'the Voice of Makom, the Place = Omnipresent [V. S. R. Hirsch, Jeshurun VII, pp. 225ff.] A town in the lowland district of Judea. These pressed figs were intoxicating, nevertheless, they do not render him a rebellious son. Tractate List / Glossary / / Bible Reference |  |  |