|  |  | Previous Folio / Shabbath Contents / Tractate List / Navigate Site # Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Shabbath ### Folio 155a a peg in a tree and hangs a basket thereon1 above ten handbreadths [from the ground], his 'erub is not an 'erub;2 below ten handbreadths, his 'erub is an 'erub. Thus it is only because he fixed a peg in the tree, but if he did not, even if it is below ten handbreadths his 'erub is not an 'erub.3 Thus this Tanna forbids the sides yet permits the indirect use of the sides? — Said R. Papa: Here we treat of a narrow-mouthed basket, so that in taking out the 'erub he sways the tree, and thus makes use of the tree itself. Now the law is that the sides are forbidden, but the sides of the sides are permitted. R. Ashi said: Now that you have ruled that the sides are forbidden, one must not rest the lodge-ladder4 on the palm tree, because that is tantamount to the [use of the] sides [of the trees;]5 but he must rest it on pegs without the tree,6 and when he ascends he should place his foot not on the pegs but on the rungs.7 MISHNAH. BUNDLES [PEKI'IN] OF SHEAVES MAY BE UNTIED FOR CATTLE AND BUNCHES [KIPPIN] MAY BE SPREAD OUT, BUT NOT SMALL BUNDLES [ZIRIN].8 NEITHER FODDER9 NOR CAROBS MAY BE CHOPPED UP FOR CATTLE, WHETHER SMALL OR LARGE;10 R. JUDAH PERMITS IN THE CASE OF CAROBS FOR SMALL CATTLE. GEMARA. R. Huna said: PEKI'IN and KIPPIN are identical, [save that] peki'in are two [bunches tied together], while kippin are three; zirin are young shoots of cedar trees.11 And this is what he [the Tanna] teaches: BUNDLES [PEKI'IN] OF SHEAVES MAY BE UNTIED FOR CATTLE, AND THEY MAY BE SPREAD, and the same applies to KIPPIN, BUT NOT TO ZIRIN, which may neither be spread out nor untied — R. Hisda said, What is R. Huna's reason? He holds that we may indeed take trouble over [natural] foodstuffs,12 but we may not turn something into foodstuffs.13 Rab Judah said: Peki'in and zirin are identical, [save that] peki'in are two [bunches tied together], whilst Zirin are three; kippin are young cedar shoots. And this is what he teaches: BUNDLES [PEKI'IN] OF SHEAVES MAYBE UNTIED FOR CATTLE, but not spread out, but as for KIPPIN, [THEY] MAY [INDEED] BE SPREAD OUT; BUT NOT ZIRIN, [which it is not permitted] to spread out but [merely] to untie. Raba said, What is Rab Judah's reason? He holds that we may indeed turn something into fodder, but may not take trouble over fodder.14 We learnt: NEITHER FODDER NOR CAROBS MAY BE CHOPPED UP FOR CATTLE, WHETHER SMALL OR LARGE: [Surely it means] carobs like fodder: just as fodder is soft, so are soft carobs meant, thus proving that we may not take trouble over [what is] foodstuff [in any case], which refutes R. Huna? — R. Huna can answer you: No: fodder like carobs: just as carobs are hard, so hard fodder15 is meant.16 Where is that possible?17 In the case of very young foals. Come and hear: R. JUDAH PERMITS IN THE CASE OF CAROBS FOR SMALL CATTLE. Thus, only for small but not for large: now it is well if you agree that the first Tanna holds that we may not take trouble over foodstuffs, yet we may turn [something] into foodstuffs: hence R. Judah argues [that cutting up] carobs for small cattle is also [an act of] turning [it] into fodder. But if you maintain that the first Tanna holds that we may not turn [aught] into fodder, yet we may take trouble over fodder, then R. JUDAH PERMITS IN THE CASE OF CAROBS FOR SMALL CATTLE [only]? all the more so for large cattle!18 — Do you think that dakkah [small] is literally meant? [No] By dakkah large cattle is meant, yet why is it called dakkah? Because it grinds [dayyka] its food.19 But since the first clause states, WHETHER SMALL OR LARGE, it follows that R. Judah means literally small? This is indeed a difficulty. Come and hear: One may cut up To Part b Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files And places his 'erub-an 'erub of boundaries (v. Glos.) — in it, intending to spend the Sabbath under the tree. — An 'erub is not valid unless it is accessible on the Sabbath. Because a basket is generally four handbreadths square, and if it is ten from the ground it is technically a private domain (cf. supra 6a), whereas the ground below is a public domain, and so one must not take the 'erub from the basket; hence it is not accessible. I.e., if he merely tied the basket to the tree. The 'erub is invalid because in order to get at it he must make use of the side of the tree; where it is hanging on a peg, however, he only makes indirect use of the sides. A ladder for ascending to a lodge set high up on poles near a tree. When he ascends on the Sabbath. I.e., pegs driven into the tree (Rashi). Jast.: on the branches spreading beyond the circumference of the tree. Or, on the canes protruding from the poles on which the lodge is built. The Gemara discusses the exact meaning of the terms used. Shahath is corn not fully grown as fodder. 'Small cattle' — sheep, goats, calves, etc.; large — cows and oxen. Cut from the tree. While yet moist they are fit for fodder, though most people leave them to dry for fuel. Such as bundles of sheaves. Such as young shoots which are normally intended for fuel. When the bundles are tied they are not fit for fodder, therefore they may be untied; but it is superfluous indulgence to spread them out, and that is forbidden. Bunches of young shoots, however, are unfit for fodder unless they are spread out; hence it is permitted. E.g., if the corn has gone dry. Without being cut up they are altogether unfit; hence they may not be cut up. That unless cut up they are unfit. — Generally animals can eat them even when hard. Since carobs are fit in any case, but are more easily eaten when cut up. 'All the more so' because if they are fit in their present state for small cattle, they are certainly fit for large. Chewing it until it is finely cut up. Tractate List / Glossary / / Bible Reference ### Shabbath 155b gourds for cattle and a carcass for dogs — Surely fit means] gourds like a carcass: just as a carcass is soft, so are soft gourds meant, which proves that we may take trouble over foodstuffs,1 which refutes Rab Judah? Rab Judah can answer you: No. A carcass like gourds: just as gourds are hard, so a hard carcass [is meant].2 And where is it possible?3 In the case of split meat4 or in the case of very young dogs.5 Come and hear: For R. Hanan of Nehardea recited: 'One may break up straw and corn fodder6 and mix them together'. This proves that we may take trouble over fodder? — Straw means putrefying straw;7 as for corn fodder [the reference is] to young foals. MISHNAH. ONE MUST NOT STUFF A CAMEL. [WITH FOOD] NOR CRAM [IT]. BUT ONE MAY PUT FOOD INTO ITS MOUTH; AND ONE MUST NOT FATTEN CALVES,8 BUT ONE MAY PUT FOOD INTO THEIR MOUTH. AND FOWLS MAY BE MADE TO TAKE UP FOOD. WATER MAY BE POURED INTO BRAN, BUT WE MAY NOT MIX IT [INTO A MASS]. AND WATER MAY NOT BE PLACED FOR BEES OR FOR DOVES IN A DOVE-COTE, BUT IT MAY BE PLACED BEFORE GEESE, FOWLS AND HARDISIAN DOVES.9 GEMARA. What does ONE MUST NOT STUFF [OBSIN] mean? — Said Rab Judah: One must not make a manger [ebus] in its stomach.10 Is such possible? — Even so, and as R. Jeremiah of Difti11 related: I myself saw a certain Arab feed it with a kor and load it with a kor.12 ONE MUST NOT FATTEN, [MA'AMIRIN]. What is hamra'ah and what is hal'atah?13 — Said Rab Judah: Hamra'ah [is forcing the food] so far that it cannot return; hal'atah is [only] so far that it can return. R. Hisda said: Both mean so far that it cannot return, but hamra'ah is [done] with a utensil, [while] hal'atah is by hand.14 R. Joseph objected: One may force fowls to take food [mehalkitin], and it is superfluous to state that we may fatten [malkitin] them; but one may not fatten [malkitin] the doves of the dove-cote or of the loft, and it is superfluous to state that we may not force them [mehalkitin]. What is mehalkitin and what is malkitin? Shall we say that mehalkitin is hand feeding, while malkitin is throwing [grain, etc.] in front of them? Whence it follows that one may not even cast [grain] before the doves of the dove-cote or of the loft!15 Hence mehalkitin is surely [forcing food] so far down that it cannot return, while malkitin is [only] so far that it can return. From this it follows that hamra'ah means [stuffing] with a utensil, which refutes Rab Judah?16 — Rab Judah can answer you: In truth mehalkitin means feeding by hand, while malkitin means casting [the food] before them, but as to your difficulty, Is it then not even permitted to cast [food] before the doves of the dove-cote and of the loft, [that indeed is so, for] you are responsible for the food of the former [sc. fowls], but not for that of the latter.17 Even as it was taught: Food may be placed before a dog but not before a swine. And what is the difference between them? You are responsible for the food of the one, but you are not responsible for the food of the other. R. Ashi said, Our Mishnah too implies this: WATER MAY NOT BE PLACED FOR BEES OR FOR DOVES IN A DOVECOTE, BUT IT MAY BE PLACED BEFORE GEESE, FOWLS, AND HARDISIAN DOVES. What is the reason? Is it not because you are responsible for the food of the former, but you are not responsible for the food of the latter? — But according to your reasoning, why particularly water: even wheat and barley too may not [be placed before them]? Rather [say] water is different, because it is found in pools. R. Jonah lectured at the entrance to the Nasi's academy:18 What is meant by the verse, The righteous knoweth the cause of the poor?19 The Holy One, blessed be He, knoweth that a dog's food is scanty,20 therefore He makes him retain his food in his stomach for three days. As we learnt: How long shall the food remain in its stomach and yet defile? In the case of a dog, three full days of twenty-four hours; while in the case of birds or fish, as long as it would take for it [the food] to fall into the fire and be burnt.21 R. Hamnuna said: This proves22 that it is the proper thing23 to throw raw meat to a dog. And how much? Said R. Mari: Measure its ear and the stick [straight] after!24 But that is only in the fields but not in town, because it will come to follow him. R. Papa said: None are poorer than a dog and none richer than a swine.25 It was taught in accordance with Rab Judah: What is hamra'ah and what is hal'atah? Hamra'ah: one makes it [the animal] lie down, opens the mouth wide, and forces it to swallow vetches and water simultaneously; hal'atah: he feeds it standing and waters it standing, and puts vetches separately and water separately [into its mouth].26 FOWLS MAY BE MADE TO TAKE UP FOOD. Abaye said, I asked this before the Master [Rabbah]: With whom does our Mishnah agree?27 And he answered me, With R. Jose b. Judah. For it was taught: If one pours in flour and another water, the second is liable: this is Rabbi's view. R. Jose b. Judah said: He is not liable unless he kneads [them].28 Yet perhaps R. Jose b. Judah ruled thus only there, in respect of flour, which is used for kneading; but as for bran, which is not used for kneading, even R. Jose b. Judah may admit [that he is liable]? — You cannot think so, because it was explicitly taught: Water must not be poured into bran: this is Rabbi's view. R. Jose b. Judah ruled: Water may be poured into bran. Our Rabbis taught: Parched corn may not be mixed,29 but others maintain, It may be mixed. Who are the 'others'? — Said R. Hisda: - To Next Folio - Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files For the gourds can be eaten even if not cut up. They are uneatable unless cut up. Cf. n. 3. Meat that has gone so hard and dry that there are splits in it. They cannot eat any flesh unless it is cut up. I.e., shahath, v. p. 792, n. 2. Though not quite putrid, for that would be unfit and mukzeh. By stuffing them with food against their will. A species of domesticated doves, probably so named from the manner of their fructification (Jast. s.v. [H]). Aliter: Herodian doves, a species of domesticated doves supposed to have been bred by Herod, v. Hul. 139b. — The Gemara discusses the various terms used in the Mishnah. By excessively stuffing it. V. p. 35, n. 5. Of fodder for the journey-this is a very great quantity indeed. Mal'itin is the term used in the Mishnah for putting food into their mouth. Hence not so forcible. Surely that is incorrect! For the Mishnah employs mehalkitin in respect of fowls and mal'itin i.e., hal'atah in respect of calves as parallel terms, and both are permissible. Hence hamra'ah, which is forbidden, must refer to feeding with a utensil. Because doves can fly about in the fields and find their own food. Or, house. It would appear that popular lectures were given there in the open. Prov. XXIX, 7. Few people trouble about dogs. — Many of the dogs in the East are semi-savage, and this 'would account for their neglect; v. J.E. art. Dog. If an animal consumes flesh of a corpse and then dies in a house before it is completely digested, the contents of the house are unclean. The Mishnah quoted states how long we are to regard the flesh as undigested. Sc. the care that the Almighty takes over a dog's food. Lit., 'the way of the world'. Give it a little, only as large as its ear, then immediately drive it off. Rashi: because the swine eats anything, and it is also given much food. Obviously in the former case the food can be forced down so far that it will not return, but not in the latter case. That the mere pouring in of water does not constitute kneading. V. supra 18a. With water and oil to make of it a beverage. Tractate List / Glossary / / Bible Reference |  |  |