|  |  | Previous Folio / Shabbath Contents / Tractate List / Navigate Site # Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Shabbath ### Folio 145a exactly as much as an egg [in quantity] it is clean.1 Hence if more than an egg [in quantity] it [the juice] is unclean; but if you say, A liquid that unites with a [solid] foodstuff is a foodstuff, whereby did it become susceptible? He raised the objection and he himself answered it: It refers to squeezing out into a plate. R. Jeremiah said, This is dependent on Tannaim: If one smooths [the surface of dough] with grapes [grape juice], it does not become susceptible [to defilement];2 R. Judah maintained: It is made susceptible, Do they not differ in this: one Master holds, A liquid that unites with a [solid] foodstuff is a foodstuff, while the other Master holds that it is not a foodstuff? — Said R. Papa. All hold, A liquid that unites with a foodstuff is not a foodstuff,3 but here they differ in respect of a liquid that will eventually be destroyed:4 one Master holds, It is [accounted] a liquid; while the other Master holds, It is not a liquid. And [they differ] in the [same] controversy as that of these Tannaim. For it was taught: If one splits olives5 with unclean hands, they are rendered susceptible;6 if in order to salt them,7 they are not rendered susceptible; if in order to know whether the olives are ripe8 for gathering9 or not, they do not become susceptible; R. Judah said: They do become susceptible. Now, surely they differ in this, viz., one Master holds: A liquid that stands to be destroyed10 is [accounted] a liquid, while the other Master holds that it is not a liquid!11 — Said R. Huna the son of R. Joshua: These [latter] Tannaim [indeed] differ in respect of a liquid that stands to be destroyed, while the former Tannaim12 differ in respect of liquid whose purpose is to polish [the dough].13 R. Zera said in R. Hiyya b. Ashi's name in Rab's name: A man may squeeze a bunch of grapes into a pot [of food], but not into a plate; but [one may squeeze] a fish for its brine even into a plate.14 Now, R. Dimi sat and stated this ruling. Said Abaye to R. Dimi, You recite it in Rab's name, hence it presents no difficulty to you; [but] we recite it in Samuel's name, so it presents a difficulty to us. Did Samuel say, '[One may squeeze] a fish for its brine even into a plate'? Surely it was stated: If one presses out [pickled] preserves,15 — Rab said: If for their own sake,16 it is permitted; if for their fluid,17 he is not culpable, nevertheless it is forbidden. But with boiled preserves, whether for their own sake or for their fluid, it is permitted. While Samuel ruled: Both with [pickled] preserves and boiled preserves, if for their own sake, it is permitted; if for their fluid, he is not culpable, yet it is forbidden!18 — By God! replied he, 'Mine eyes have beheld, and not a stranger':19 I heard it from R. Jeremiah's mouth, and R. Jeremiah from R. Zera, and R. Zera from R. Hiyya b. Ashi, and R. Hiyya b. Ashi from Rab. To turn to [the main] text: 'If one presses out [pickled] preserves, — Rab said: If for their own sake, it is permitted; if for their fluid, he is not culpable, nevertheless it is forbidden. But with boiled preserves, whether for their own sake or for their fluid, it is permitted. While Samuel ruled: Both with [pickled] preserves and boiled preserves, if for their own sake, it is permitted; if for their fluid, he is not culpable, yet it is forbidden. R. Johanan said: Both with [pickled] and boiled preserves, if for their own sake, it is permitted; if for their fluid, he is liable to a sin-offering'. An objection is raised: One may squeeze [pickled] preserves on the Sabbath for the requirements of the Sabbath, but not against the termination of the Sabbath; but one must not express olives and grapes, and if he does, he is liable to a sin-offering: this is a difficulty according to Rab, Samuel, and R. Johanan? — Rab reconciles it with his view, Samuel with his, and R. Johanan with his. 'Rab reconciles it with his view': One may squeeze [pickled] preserves on the Sabbath for the requirements of the Sabbath, but not against the termination of the Sabbath. When is this said? when it is [done] for their own sake; but if for their fluid, he is not culpable, yet it is forbidden; while [as for] boiled preserves, whether [done] for their own sake or for their fluid, it is permitted. But one must not express olives and grapes, and if he does he is liable to a sin-offering. 'Samuel explains it according to his view': One may squeeze [pickled] preserves on the Sabbath for the requirements of the Sabbath, [and] the same applies to boiled preserves. When is this said? When it is for their own sakes; but if for their fluid, he is not culpable, yet it is forbidden. And one must not express olives and grapes, and if he does, he is liable to a sin-offering. 'R. Johanan explains it according to his view': One may squeeze [pickled] preserves for the requirements of the Sabbath, but not against the termination of the Sabbath. This applies to both [pickled] and boiled preserves. When is that said? When it is for their own sake; but he must not squeeze them for their fluid, and if he does, it is as though he squeezed olives and grapes, and he is liable to a sin-offering. R. Hiyya b. Ashi said in Rab's name: By the words of the Torah20 one is culpable for the treading out of olives and grapes alone. And the School of Menasseh taught likewise: By the words of the Torah one is culpable for the treading out of olives and grapes alone. And a witness [attesting] what he heard from21 another witness is valid To Part b Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files This person defiles food, and in turn the food, if not less than the size of an egg in quantity, defiles liquids. Here the man does not touch the expressed juice. Now from the very first drop that issues the residue is less than the necessary minimum, and therefore it cannot defile the liquid that follows. V. Toh. III, 3; v. Pes., Sonc. ed., p. 153, n. 2. Presumably the flour was kneaded with eggs, which do not render it susceptible, and the first Tanna teaches that the grape juice does not do so either. So cur, edd., which Rashi and Tosaf. support. Wilna Gaon states that the reading of the Geonim, as well as that of Alfasi, is: is a foodstuff. For the heat of the oven will dry it up. Rashi: to soften them. To defilement through the liquid that oozes out because he is pleased with it, since the olives are softened thereby, v. p. 45, nn. 1, 4. When very hard they cannot take salt, and therefore he desires to soften them slightly, but not so much that the juice oozes out; hence he is not pleased therewith. Lit., 'have arrived'. Whether they are soft enough for the oil to be easily expressed. The liquid which oozes out of course is lost. And similarly do the Tannaim of the former Baraitha differ on the same question. Who discuss the smoothing of dough. But the question of waste does not enter here, because this liquid serves a definite purpose. giving the dough a brighter colour. Because it is a foodstuff, not a drink, and the squeezing merely separate. its composite parts, viz., the brine from the flesh. I.e., raw vegetables, preserved or pickled in wine or vinegar. I.e., he wishes to eat them, and they bear too much moisture at present. He actually wishes to drink its fluid. Now the squeezing of boiled preserves is like that of a fish for its brine. Thus Samuel is self-contradictory. Job XIX, 27. That Rab is the authority for the reported ruling. Pentateuchal law. Lit., 'from the mouth'. Tractate List / Glossary / / Bible Reference ### Shabbath 145b in evidence concerning a woman alone.1 The scholars asked: What about a witness [attesting] what he heard from another witness in evidence relating to a firstling?2 — R. Ammi forbids [the admission of his testimony]; while R. Assi permits it. Said R. Ammi to R. Ashi, But the School of Menasseh taught: A witness testifying what he heard from another witness is valid in testimony concerning a woman alone? — Say: Only in testimony for which a woman is valid.3 R. Yemar recognized as fit a witness [testifying] from the mouth of another witness in respect to a firstling, [whereupon] Meremar called him 'Yemar who permits firstlings.'4 Yet the law is, A witness [testifying] from the mouth of another witness is valid in respect to firstlings. HONEYCOMBS. When R. Oshaia came from Nehardea, he came and brought a Baraitha with him:5 If one crushes olives and grapes on the eve of the Sabbath, and they [their juices] ooze out of themselves, they are forbidden; but R. Eleazar and R. Simeon permit them. R. Joseph observed. Does he come to inform us of another person?6 — Said Abaye to him, He comes to tell us much. For if [we learnt] from our Mishnah [alone], I would argue, Only there [is it thus], since it [the honey] was a [solid] foodstuff originally and is now a foodstuff; but here that they [the grapes, etc.] were originally a foodstuff but now7 a fluid, I would say, It is not so. Hence he informs us [otherwise]. MISHNAH. WHATEVER WAS PUT INTO HOT WATER BEFORE THE SABBATH MAY BE STEEPED [AGAIN] IN HOT WATER ON THE SABBATH; BUT WHATEVER WAS NOT PUT INTO HOT WATER BEFORE THE SABBATH MAY [ONLY] BE RINSED WITH HOT WATER ON THE SABBATH, EXCEPT OLD SALTED [PICKLED] FISH, [SMALL SALTED FISH],8 AND THE COLIAS OF THE SPANIARDS,9 BECAUSE THEIR RINSING COMPLETES THEIR PREPARATION.10 GEMARA. What, for example?11 R. Safra said: E.g., R. Abba's fowl[s].12 R. Safra also said: I once paid a visit there [Palestine] and ate thereof, and but for R. Abba who made me drink wine of three foliages13 I would have been in danger.14 R. Johanan expectorated at [the mention of] Babylonian kutah.15 Said R. Joseph: Then we [Babylonians] should expectorate at R. Abba's fowl!16 Moreover, R. Gaza has related, I once paid a visit there [in Palestine] and prepared some Babylonian kutah, and all the invalids of the West [Palestine] asked me for it. WHATEVER WAS NOT PUT INTO HOT WATER, etc. What if one does rinse [them]?17 R. Joseph said: If one rinses them, he incurs a sin-offering. Mar the son of Rabina said, We too learnt thus: EXCEPT OLD SALTED [PICKLED] FISH, AND THE COLIAS OF THE SPANIARDS, BECAUSE THEIR RINSING COMPLETES THEIR PREPARATION: this proves it.18 R. Hiyya b. Abba and R. Assi were sitting before R. Johanan, while R. Johanan was sitting and dozing. Now, R. Hiyya b. Abba asked R. Assi, Why are the fowls in Babylonia fat?19 Go to the wilderness of Gaza, replied he, and I will show you fatter ones. Why are the festivals in Babylon [so] joyous? Because they [its inhabitants] are poor.20 Why are the scholars in Babylonia distinguished [in dress]? Because they are not well learned.21 Why are idolaters lustful? Because they eat abominable and creeping things. R. Johanan awoke thereat [and] said to them, Children! did I not this teach you: Say unto wisdom, Thou art my sister:22 if the matter is as clear to thee as that thy sister is interdicted to thee, say it; but if not do not say it? Said they to him, Then let the Master tell us some of these? Why are the fowls of Babylonia fat? Because they were not sent into exile, as it is said, Moab hath been at ease from his youth, and he hath settled on his lees...neither hath he gone into capacity: [therefore his taste remaineth in him, and his scent is not changed].23 And how do we know that they suffered exile here [in Palestine]? Because it was taught, R. Judah said: For fifty-two years no man passed through Judea, as it is said, For the mountains will I take up a weeping and wailing, and for the pastures of the wilderness a lamentation, because they are burned up, so that none passeth through...both the fowl of the heavens and the beast [behemah] are fled, they are gone:24 the numerical value of behemah is fifty-two.25 R. Jacob said in R. Johanan's name: They all returned save the colias of the Spaniards. For Rab said: The water courses of Babylonia carry back the water to the fountain of Etam;26 but these [colias], since their spine is not firm, could not go up.27 Why are the festivals in Babylonia joyous? Because they were not subject to that curse, whereof it is written, I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feasts, her new moons, her Sabbaths, and all her solemn assemblies,'28 and it is written, Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me.29 What does 'they are a trouble unto me' mean? — Said R. Eleazar: The Holy One, blessed be He, saith, Not enough is it for Israel that they sin before Me, but that they trouble Me to know which evil decree I am to bring upon them. R. Isaac said: There is no single festival when troops did not come to Sepphoris.30 R. Hanina said: There is no single festival when there did not come to Tiberias a general with his suite and centurions.31 Why are the scholars of Babylonia distinguished [in dress]? Because they are not in their [original] homes,32 as People say, In my own town my name [is sufficient]; away from home, my dress.33 In days to come shall Jacob take root, Israel shall blossom [yaziz] and bud [ufarah].34 R. Joseph recited, This refers to scholars in Babylonia who wreathe blossoms [ziziz] and flowers [perahim] around the Torah.35 Why are idolaters lustful? Because they did not stand at Mount Sinai. For when - To Next Folio - Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files He is valid to attest a man's death, so that his wife may remarry v. Yeb. 90b. A firstling of animals may not be eaten until it receives a blemish accidentally, which must be proved by witnesses. A woman is a valid witness only in certain matters, which includes a firstling's blemish, and in these hearsay too is admissible. Said in a critical spirit. Lit., 'in his hand'. What purpose does this Baraitha serve? The, same principle is expressed in our Mishnah by R. Eleazar, and he merely tells us that it is also R. Simeon's view. Lit., 'at the end'. Var. lec. omits this. A kind of tunny-fish. V. supra 39a top for notes. Is put into hot water and then steeped again. Which he boiled and kept many days in hot water until they dissolved; then he ate them as a remedy. I.e., in the third year. I was moved to expectorate, so sickly was it. He disliked it so much. The disparagement of the Babylonian delicacy gave him offence. The old salted fish etc. Since it completes their preparation it is the equivalent of boiling. Fatter than the Palestinian ones. And live drably during the rest of the year, therefore they appreciate the festivals all the more. Lit., 'they are not sons of (i.e., they do not possess) the Torah'. — Hence they have nothing else but dress to distinguish them. Prov. VII, 4. Jer. XLVIII, 11. The verse is quoted to show the adverse physical effects of exile. Ibid. IX, 9 (E.V. 10). I.e., [H] = 2; [H] = 5; [H] = 40; [H] = 5. Thus he translates: the fowl of the heavens is fled for fifty-two (years). Of course, the fifty-two years of desolation are based on historical figures (Meg. 11b), and this verse is merely quoted as a support or hint. (Tosaf.). The highest eminence in Palestine (Zeb. 54b). According to Josephus (Ant. VIII, 7, 3) it was sixty stadia south of Jerusalem, and it supplied the city with water. The mikweh used by the High Priest on the Day of Atonement, which was situated above the Water Gate, was also drawn thence (Yoma 31a). — Thus as the water flowed from Babylonia it carried along the fish which had migrated from Palestine. The whole discussion was probably a mere jeu d'espirit as a relaxation after serious study. Hos. II, 13. Isa. I, 14. V. p. 16, n. 6. They were quartered on the Jews and naturally hindered the joy of the festival. [H] lit., 'cane bearer', but MS.O. reads: [H], a general. For [H] Jast. suggests that [H] (= comites, members of the imperial cabinet) should be read. [H] = rod bearers, i.e., centurions. i.e., they hail from Palestine. There I must make myself known and distinguished through dress. — This is certainly a more charitable explanation than the previous. Isa. XXVII, 6. This is in support of R. Johanan's estimate of the Babylonian scholars. Tractate List / Glossary / / Bible Reference |  |  |