|  |  | Previous Folio / Shabbath Contents / Tractate List / Navigate Site # Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Shabbath ### Folio 42a it is permitted.1 Shall we say that Samuel agrees with R. Simeon?2 But surely Samuel said: One may extinguish a lump of fiery metal in the street, that it should not harm the public,3 but not a burning piece4 of wood.5 A Now if you think that he agrees with R. Simeon, even that of wood too [should be permitted]?6 — In respect to what is unintentional he holds with R. Simeon; but in the matter of work which is not needed per se, he agrees with R. Judah.7 Rabina said: As a corollary, a thorn in public ground may be carried away in stages of less than four cubits;8 whilst in a karmelith 9 even a great distance too [is permitted). BUT ONE MAY POUR, etc. Our Rabbis taught: A man may pour hot water into cold, but not cold water into hot; this is the view of Beth Shammai;10 while Beth Hillel maintain: Both hot into cold and cold into hot are permitted. This applies only to a cup,11 but in the case of a bath, hot into cold [is permitted], but not cold into hot.12 But R. Simeon b. Menassia forbids it.13 R. Nahman said: The halachah is as R. Simeon b. Menassia. R. Joseph thought to rule: A basin is as a bath. Said Abaye to him, R. Hiyya taught: A basin is not as a bath. Now, on the original supposition that it is as a bath, while R. Nahman ruled, The halachah is as R. Simeon, can there be no washing in hot water on the Sabbath?14 — Do you think that R. Simeon refers to the second clause? He refers to the first clause: 'While Beth Hillel maintain: Both hot into cold and cold into hot are permitted';15 but R. Simeon b. Menassia forbids even cold into hot. Shall we say that R. Simeon b. Menassia rules as Beth Shammai?16 — He says thus: Beth Shammai and Beth Hillel did not differ in this matter.17 R. Huna son of R. Joshua said: I saw that Raba was not particular about vessels,18 since R. Hiyya taught: A person may pour a jug of water into a basin of water, hot into cold or cold into hot.19 Said R. Huna to R. Ashi: Perhaps it is different there, because the vessel intervenes?20 — It is stated that he pours it, was his answer.21 [Thus:] A person may pour a jug of water into a basin of water, both hot into cold and cold into hot. MISHNAH. IF A STEW POT OR A BOILING POT22 IS REMOVED SEETHING; [FROM THE FIRE],23 ONE MUST NOT PUT SPICES THEREIN,24 To Part b Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files Since that is not his intention. That whatever is unintentional is permitted. Metal does not really burn, but throws off fiery sparks when red-hot. The prohibition of extinguishing does not apply in this case by Biblical law at all, save by Rabbinical law; hence where general damage may ensue the Rabbis waived their prohibition. Lit., 'coal'. For that is Biblically forbidden. For R. Simeon rules that if work is not needed per se (v. p, 510, n. 3) it imposes no liability, and every case of extinguishing, except the extinguishing of a wick to make it easier for subsequent relighting (v. supra 29b bottom), falls within this category. Hence it is only Rabbinically forbidden, and therefore the same as metal. That it is interdicted. The least distance which is Biblically forbidden is four cubits in a single passage, without an interval. A thorn too may cause harm to the public; hence the Rabbinical interdict is waived. V. Glos. and supra 6a. Rashi: they hold that the lower prevails against the upper. Hence in the former case the hot water is tempered by the cold, which is permitted; but in the latter the cold is heated by the hot, which is forbidden. R. Tam: 'hot water into cold' implies that the cold water exceeds the hot, and therefore cools it, hence it is permitted. 'Cold water into hot' implies that there is more hot water, which heats the cold; consequently, it is forbidden. According to this interpretation this is independent of the question whether the lower prevails against the upper or the reverse, which refers to equal quantities; cf. [H] Yoreh De'ah XCI, 12. The water being required for drinking, one does not wish it to become very hot. Moreover, a cup is a 'second vessel' (v. supra p. 188, n. 6), I.e., the water is not actually heated therein, and the contents of a second vessel cannot cause anything that comes into contact therewith to boil. The water is needed for washing, and must be very hot. Therefore if the latter case is permitted, we fear that one will come intentionally to heat water in a forbidden manner. The reference is to a bath which is a 'second vessel', and yet it is forbidden for this reason. Even hot into cold. Rashi: even if heated on the eve of the Sabbath, cold water must be added to temper its heat, which according to R. Simeon b. Menassia is forbidden. The reference being to a cup, not a bath, as stated. Surely not, for it is axiomatic that the halachah is always as Beth Hillel. Both agreeing that it is forbidden. Pouring hot water into cold and vice versa. Asheri omits 'about vessels.' Tosaf. suggests that this may be the identical Baraitha cited above, but that there it was quoted in brief. He assumed that the water is poured on to the inner side of the basin first, which somewhat cools it. I.e., directly into the water. The first means a tightly covered pot. At twilight on Friday. After nightfall. The pot is a 'first vessel' (v. p. 188, n. 6) and its contents, as long as they are seething, cause any other commodity put therein to boil likewise. Tractate List / Glossary / / Bible Reference ### Shabbath 42b BUT ONE MAY PUT [SPICES] INTO A DISH OR A TUREEN.1 R. JUDAH SAID: HE MAY PUT [SPICES] INTO ANYTHING EXCEPT WHAT CONTAINS VINEGAR OR BRINE.2 GEMARA. The scholars propounded: Does R. Judah refer to the first clause, and [he rules] in the direction of leniency;3 or perhaps he refers to the second clause, [inclining] to stringency?4 — Come and hear: R. Judah said: One may put [spices] into all stew pots and into all boiling pots that are seething, except aught that contains vinegar or brine.5 R. Joseph thought to rule that salt is like spices, [viz.,] that it boils in a 'first vessel' but not in a second vessel'. Said Abaye to him, R. Hiyya taught: Salt is not like spices, for it boils even in a second vessel'. Now, he differs from R. Nahman, who said: Salt requires as much boiling as ox flesh. Others state, R. Joseph thought to rule: Salt is like spices, [viz.,] that it boils in a 'first vessel' but not in a 'second vessel'. Said Abaye to him, R. Hiyya taught: Salt is not like spices, for it does not boil even in a 'first vessel'. And this is identical with R. Nahmanis dictum: Salt requires as much boiling as ox flesh.6 MISHNAH. ONE MAY NOT PLACE A VESSEL UNDER A LAMP TO CATCH THE OIL.7 BUT IF IT IS PLACED THERE BEFORE SUNSET,8 IT IS PERMITTED. YET ONE MAY NOT BENEFIT FROM IT,9 BECAUSE IT IS NOT OF MUKAN.10 GEMARA. R. Hisda said: Though they [the Sages] ruled, A vessel may not be placed under a fowl to receive its eggs,11 yet a vessel may be overturned upon it [the egg] that it should not be broken. Said Rabbah, What is R. Hisda's reason? — He holds that it is usual for a fowl to lay her eggs in a dung heap, but not on sloping ground; now, they [the Sages] permitted12 in a common [case of] saving,13 but in an uncommon [case of] saving they did not permit.14 Abaye raised an objection: Now, did they [the Sages] not permit in an uncommon [case of] saving? Surely it was taught: If a person's barrel of tebel 15 burst on the top of his roof, he may bring a vessel and place it beneath it.16 — The reference is to new jars, which frequently burst. He raised an objection: A vessel may be placed under a lamp to catch the sparks? — Sparks too are common. - To Next Folio - Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files Containing a hot stew. The dish or tureen is a 'second vessel', which cannot make the spices boil. Being sharp, they cause the spices to boil. I.e., the first Tanna, having stated that spices may not be put into a 'first vessel', R. Judah permits it, save where it contains vinegar or brine. The first Tanna permits spices to be put into a 'second vessel', no matter what its contents, whereas R. Judah makes an exception. Thus he refers to a 'first vessel'. Hence it does not boil unless actually on the fire. On the Sabbath. Rashi offers two reasons: (i) The oil, having been set apart for fuel, is mukzeh, i.e., it must not be used in any other manner, nor may it be handled, and this Tanna holds that a utensil can be moved only for the sake of an object which may itself be handled. (ii) At present the vessel may be handled for a number of purposes. Once oil drops into it, it may not be moved, because the oil is mukzeh, and in the opinion of this Tanna one may not cause a vessel to become immovable, for it is as though he joins it to the lamp on the Sabbath. Lit.,'while it is yet day.' I.e., use the oil which drops therein. V.Glos. When she lays them on sloping ground; the vessel is to prevent them from rolling down the incline and breaking. To move a vessel for the sake of an object that may not be handled, as the egg in question. Viz., to save the eggs from being trampled upon while they lay on the dung heap. People walked over dung (manure) heaps; cf. B.K. 30a. Viz., to save them from rolling down the slope. V. Glos. The reference is to oil or wine. Though tebel itself may not be handled, while such a case of saving is uncommon, as it is rare for a barrel to burst. The same assumption is made in the other attempted refutations, that the savings permitted are in an uncommon case. Tractate List / Glossary / / Bible Reference |  |  |