|  |  | Previous Folio / Baba Bathra Contents / Tractate List / Navigate Site # Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Baba Bathra ### Folio 145a 'Give me my husband I will rejoice with him';1 here also he2 could say. 'Give me my shoshbin and I will rejoice with him'!3 — R. Joseph replied: We deal here with a case where4 he5 rejoiced with him6 the seven days of the [wedding] feast7 but had no opportunity of repaying him6 before he died.8 May it be suggested [that the question whether a betrothed woman may advance the plea], 'Give me my husband and I will rejoice with him' [is a matter of dispute between] Tannaim? For it was taught: '[In the case where] a person betrothes a woman,9 [if] a virgin she is entitled to two hundred [zuz] and [to] a maneh 10 [if] a widow, Where it is the custom to return the [token of] betrothal11 it [must] be returned; where it is the custom not to return the [token of] betrothal [it is] not [to be] returned; [these are] the words of R. Nathan. R. Judah the Prince said, in truth [the Sages] said: Where it is the custom to return, it [must] be returned; where it is the custom not to return, it [need] not [be] returned'. [Does not] R. Judah the Prince [say exactly the same thing] as the first Tanna: [Must it] not then [be explained]12 that [the difference] between them lies in [the admissibility of the plea]. 'Give me my husband and I will rejoice with him,' and that there is a lacuna [in the text] which should read13 thus: '[In the case where] a person betrothes a woman, [if] a virgin she is entitled to two hundred [zuz, and [to] a maneh [if] a widow. This applies only to the case where he has retracted but [if] she died, [the token of betrothal] is to be returned where it is the custom to return; where it is the custom not to return, it [need] not be returned — This, [furthermore.] applies only [to the case] where she died, but [where] he died.it [need] not [be] returned.' What is the reason? Because she can plead. 'Give me my husband and I will rejoice with him' And [with reference to this statement] R. Judah the Prince said14 'In truth [the Sages] stated [that] whether he died. or she died. it Is to be returned where it is the custom to return; where it is the custom not to return.it [need] not [be] returned';15 and she cannot say, 'Give me my husband and I will rejoice with him'!16 — No; all17 [may agree that] she may advance the plea. 'Give me my husband and I will rejoice with him'; and [in the case] where he died no one [in fact] disputes [this].18 Their dispute has reference only19 [to the case] where she died; their [point of) disagreement [centering] here on [the question whether a token of] betrothal is unreturnable.20 R. Nathan holds the opinion that [a token of] betrothal is not unreturnable,20 and R. Judah the Prince holds the opinion that [a token of] betrothal is unreturnable. But surely it was taught. 'Where it is the custom to return. it [must] be returned'!21 — He means this: And [as regards the] gifts.22 they [must] certainly be returned where it is the custom to return [them]. These Tannaim [differ on the same principle]23 as the following Tannaim — For it was taught: If one betrothes a woman24 with a talent,25 [if] a virgin she is entitled to two hundred [zuz]26 and [to a] maneh [if] a widow; these are the words.of R. Meir. R. Judah said: A virgin is entitled to two hundred [zuz] and a widow [to] a maneh. and the remainder27 she returns to him. R. Jose said: [If] he betrothed her with twenty [shekels].28 he gives her, [in addition,] thirty halves; [if] he betrothed her with thirty [shekels], he gives her, [in addition], twenty halves. Now, of what case is it spoken here?29 If it is suggested [of that] where she died; does she, [in such a case, it may be asked]. receive her kethubah.30 But [in the case] where he died? Why, [it may be argued again.] does she31 return to him the remainder? Let her advance the plea.'Give me my husband and I will rejoice with him'! If. however, [it be suggested that we deal] with [the case of] the wife of an Israelite who committed adultery,32 'then, it may be queried.in what [circumstances. did this happen]? If with [her] consent, does she [in such a case] receive [her]kethubah?33 And if under duress, she is surely permitted to [continue to live with] him!34 Hence [the Baraitha] must [deal] with [the case of] the wife of a priest who [committed adultery] under duress35 and the [point of] disagreement between them36 is [the question of] whether [a token of] betrothal is unreturnable. R. Meir holds the opinion [that a token of] betrothal is unreturnable;37 and R. Judah holds the opinion [that a token of betrothal is] not unreturnable,38 while R. Jose is doubtful [as to] whether it is returnable or not, and, consequently. [if] he betrothed her with twenty [shekels]39 he gives her,40 [in addition].thirty halves,41 [and if] he betrothed her with thirty [shekels]42 he gives her twenty halves.43 R. Joseph b. Manyumi said in the name of R. Nahman: Wherever It is the custom to return,44 it [must] be returned. And the explanation is Nehardea45 What [is the practice in] the rest of Babylon? — Both Rabbah and R. Joseph stated: Presents46 are returned;47 [tokens of] betrothal are not returned. R. Papa said: The law [is that] whether he died or she died or he retracted., presents46 are to be returned, [tokens of] betrothal are not to be returned. If she retracted, even [tokens of) betrothal [must] also be returned. Amemar said: [A token of] betrothal [must] not be returned. [This is] a preventive measure against the possibility' of assumption that betrothal would take effect in the case of her sister.48 R. Ashi said: Her bill of divorce [would] prove her [status]49 But [the statement] of R. Ashi is to be rejected '50 for there [may] be some who heard of the one51 and did not hear of the other.52 FOR [THE RECIPROCATION OF] WEDDING GIFTS MAY BE CLAIMED THROUGH A COURT OF LAW'. Our Rabbis taught: Five things were said in respect of [reciprocation of a] wedding gift: It may be claimed through a court of law; it is to be reciprocated at its proper time;53 and it is not subject to [the restrictions of] usury;54 To Part b Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files I.e., since it is not her fault that the marriage was not consummated she is entitled to retain, the money or the object that was given to her at the betrothal. The original recipient of the gifts. It is not his fault that his friend died and that he cannot, consequently. reciprocate his services and gifts. How, then, can it he assumed above that the heirs are entitled to the reciprocation of the gifts? Lit., 'here, in what case are we engaged? — As for instance'. The original recipient. His shoshebin, on the occasion of the latter's own marriage. And has thus become liable to present the gifts in reciprocation of those he had received. Hence he must return the gifts to the dead bridegroom's heirs. And he died or divorced her before the wedding took place. One hundred zuz. V. p. 620 n. 14, supra Lit., 'but not'. Lit., 'it teaches'. Lit., 'came to say'. V. B.M. 601. May it. consequently. be assumed that only the first Tanna does, but that R. Judah does not allow the plea 'Give me husband etc.'? Lit., 'all the world', i.e.. even R. Judah. Cf. n. 4; even R. Judah agrees that the plea is eligible. Lit., 'when do they dispute'. Lit., 'given for sinking'. i.e., 'that it be not returned under any conditions whatsoever. And, as was stated above, even R. Judah agrees on this point The Sablonoth, dona sponsalitia (v. infra p. 628, n. 6). which the groom gives to the bride after betrothal, not forming part of the legal token of betrothal. Viz. the irrevocability of the token of betrothal. Lit., 'her'. Sixty maneh (cf. R. Gersh. a.l.). As her kethubah, in addition to the talent (the token of betrothal) which she received. This shows that R. Meir holds that a token of betrothal is unreturnable under any circumstances. (R. Gersh.). Of the talent, after the amount of the kethubah had been deducted. This shows that according to R. Judah a token of betrothal is returnable under certain conditions. Jose's statement is explained infra. Lit., 'in what are we engaged', in the Baraitha cited. Surely she does not. According to R. Judah. In consequence of which she has been divorced by her husband from whom she now claims her kethubah. A woman who played the harlot is certainly not entitled to it. So that the question of a kethubah could not arise. And if he were to insist on divorcing her, despite her misfortune, she would undoubtedly be entitled to her kethubah. And a priest. being forbidden to live with such a wife, must divorce her, The Tannaim of the Baraitha. Hence he stated that the amount of the kethubah must he given to her in addition to the talent which she received as the token of her betrothal. Consequently she must in such circumstances return the difference between the talent (given to her as token of betrothal) and the amount of her kethubah. Or eighty zuz (a shekel = four zuz). If she is a widow. Of a shekel, viz., sixty zuz. The twenty shekels with which he betrothed her, being of a doubtful ownership (R. Jose not being certain whether a token of betrothal is unreturnable) is divided, and she accordingly retains ten shekels, viz., forty zuz. Since a widow is entitled to a kethubah of a maneh, or a hundred zuz he must give her in addition sixty zuz (thirty halves of a shekel). In which case she retains fifteen shekels or sixty zuz. Of a shekel viz., forty zuz, thus completing the total amount of the kethubah of a hundred zuz. The token of betrothal, and gifts. Nehardea was a place where it was customary to return both the token of betrothal and gifts. Such as jewels which the bridegroom sends the bride after betrothal. If she died or was divorced. Since it might be assumed that the return of the token of betrothal implied that the betrothal was invalid, the man might In consequence be allowed to marry his first wife's sister. That her betrothal was valid. Had It been invalid there would have been no need for a divorce. Hence a token of betrothal may be returned. [H] 'outside', or [H]. 'invention', 'fiction', v. B.M. 9a.. Lit., 'this', i.e., of the return of the token. I.e., of he divorce. I.e., at the marriage of the shoshbin, and not earlier. The reciprocated gift may be of a higher value than the original one. Tractate List / Glossary / / Bible Reference ### Baba Bathra 145b and the Sabbatical year1 does not cause Its cancellation;2 and the firstborn does not receive of it a double portion.3 'It may be claimed through a court of law'; what is the reason? — It is like a loan. 'And it is not subject to [the restrictions of] usury' — because he4 did not give it to him with this intention5 'And the Sabbatical year does not cause Its cancellation' — because the Scriptural [injunction], he shall not exact,6 cannot be applied to it.7 'And the firstborn does not receive a double portion' — because it is prospective.8 and a firstborn does not receive [a double portion] in prospective [property] as in that which was in [his father's] possession [at the time of his death]. R. Kahana said, [This is] the rule of groomsmanship: [If] he9 was In town,10 he should have come.11 [If] he12 [could] hear the sound of the [wedding] bells,13 he should have come.11 [If] he [could] not hear the sound of the bells,14 the [other]15 should have informed him. He has, therefore, a grievance [against him],16 but [must] nevertheless repay him. And up to how much?17 — Abaye said: Wedding guests18 are in the habit of putting in their stomachs up to the value of a zuz brought in their hands;19 up to four [zuz].a half [of the value of the gifts] is paid;20 in case of any higher values,21 every man according to his importance.22 Our Rabbis taught: If a person rendered service [to a bridegroom]23 at a public24 [wedding] and he25 [now] desires [the latter] to reciprocate his services26 at [a] private [wedding] he27 may tell him, 'At a public [wedding] I will act for you as you have acted for me.28 If he rendered service to one29 [who married] a virgin, and he [now] desires [the latter] to reciprocate30 [on the occasion of his marriage] with a widow he31 can say to him, '[At your marriage] with a virgin I will act for you as you acted for me'28 If he rendered service to one29 on [the occasion of his] second [marriage] and he [now] desires [the latter] to reciprocate30 on [the occasion of his own] first [marriage], he31 can say to him, 'When you will marry a second wife I will reciprocate'.28 If he rendered service to one29 [on the occasion of his marriage] with one [woman] and he [now] desires [the latter] to reciprocate30 [on the occasion of his marriage] with two, [the latter] can say to him, '[On the occasion of your marriage] with one I will act for you as you acted for me.'28 Our Rabbis taught: Rich in possessions32 [and] rich in pomp33 — that is a master of aggadoth.34 Rich in money35 [and] rich in oil36 — that is a master in dialectics.37 Rich in products38 [and] rich in stores39 — that is a master of traditions.40 All. [however]. are dependent on32 the master of wheat. [i.e.] Gemara.41 R. Zera said in the name of Rab: What [character is meant] by the Scriptural text, All the days of the poor are evil?'42 — A master of Gemara;43 but he that is of a merry heart hath a continual feast'' refers to44 a master of the Mishnah45 Raba reversed the order; and this is what R. Mesharsheya stated in the name of Raba: What [characters are referred to] in the Scriptural text, Whoso quarrieth stones shall be hurt therewith; and he that cleaveth wood is warmed up thereby?46 is He that quarrieth stones shall be hurt therewith, has reference to47 the masters of the Mishnah;48 and he that cleaveth wood is warmed up thereby, has reference to47 the masters of Gemara49 R. Hanina said: All the days of the poor are evil.42 refers [to him]44 who has a wicked wife; but he that is of a merry heart hath a continual feast,42 refers'44 [to him] who has a good wife. R. Jannai said: All the days of the poor are evil 42 refers to44 one who is fastidious; but he that is of a merry heart hath a continual feast 50 refers to one of a robust constitution. R. Johanan said: All the days of the poor are evil,50 refers to one who is compassionate; but he that is of a merry heart hath a continual feast,50 refers to one who is cruel. And R. Joshua b. Levi said: All the days of the poor are evil,50 refers to an impatient51 man; but he that is of a merry heart hath a continual feast,50 refers to a contented man. - To Next Folio - Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud Files If it occurred before the gift had been reciprocated. Though it causes the cancellation of debts (cf. Deut. XV, 2ff). Where the gift reverted to the common estate of the heirs. The shoshbin. That the reciprocated gift shall be of a higher value than the original one. It might just as well have been worth less. Deut. XV, 2. Since it cannot be exacted at the Sabbatical year, reciprocation not being due until the groomsman celebrates his marriage. (Cf. Mak. 3b). The reciprocated gift was never in the possession of the first-born's father; and all he inherited was only a claim for the future. The man who has to reciprocate the wedding gift. When his shoshbin celebrated his own marriage. With the gift. And since he did not, it may be claimed through a court of law. Being out of town. Heb. tabla, [H] Gr. [G], an instrument from which bells were suspended, used at bridal and other processions. [Others, 'drum', 'tambourine'; v. Krauss, op cit 92ff.] (Either he was not within hearing distance (R. Gersh.): or, the custom had fallen into desuetude in the locality (Krauss. op. cit. II, 41).] The bridegroom. For failing to inform him. I.e., when the reciprocated gift is claimed through a court or when it is repaid in any other way, in the case where the giver of it did not participate in the wedding festivities, how much may he deduct from the value of the gift in lieu of the food and refreshments he would have consumed had he attended the festivities? Lit., 'the children of the bridechamber'. I.e., if they bring gifts not exceeding one zuz in value they consume refreshments and food, at the wedding festivities, to the full value of their gift. Consequently, if the present bridegroom (the former shoshbin) had brought a gift not exceeding one zuz in value, the first bridegroom (to whom it was brought and from whom the reciprocated gift is now claimed) need not now return anything; since be saved the claimant (the present bridegroom) the value of a zuz by absenting himself from his wedding. Guests who bring gifts worth more than a zuz but not exceeding four zuz receive greater attention, and their entertainment is worth half the value of their gifts. Hence, half the value of the reciprocated gifts may be deducted in lieu of the food and refreshments saved. Lit., 'from here onwards'. The more important the man and the more costly his gifts, the more the expense of his entertainment. Such a person. if he could not attend the festivities, may' consequently deduct a proportionate sum from the value of his reciprocated gift. Lit., 'he did with him', i.e., acted as shoshbin and brought the customary gifts. Gr. [G],' (Lat. pompa), 'attended with pomp and a public procession'. The first mentioned. Lit., 'to do with him'. The latter. I.e., a person need only reciprocate under conditions similar to those under which service was rendered to him. If, therefore, he is asked to act under different conditions he may refuse, and there is no obligation on his part either to reciprocate the gifts or to come to the wedding. V.supra n. 4, V. supra n. 7' V.. supra n. 8. Such as fields and vineyards. E.g., cattle that wander about, and are exposed to public view. Who preaches to large audiences and is thus able to give public display to his knowledge. Lit., sela'im. Heb.. Tekoa', [H], a Palestine town famous for its oils. Others, 'rich in the ownership of houses.' [Who by his creative powers is continually able to establish new points and evolve new principles. thus making his knowledge as continually productive as the possession of money and choicest oils.] Lit., '(things that are) measured', Lit., 'cellar', 'store-room'. (Who keeps his store of traditional teachings in readiness for guidance whenever the occasion arises.] The discussions and interpretations of the Mishnah and Baraithoth, and the decisions arrived at, which are indispensable for right practice and conduct. Prov. XV, 15. [Who is often in difficulty in finding his way through the maze of the involved and intricate argumentation.] Lit., 'this', Where the teachings are given clearly and precisely. Eccl. X, 9, Heb. [H], 'is warmed up'. (E.V. 'endangered'). Lit., 'these'. [The study of the Mishnah alone, in the absence of the principles underlying the teaching thereof', affords no competence for the giving of decisions, V. Sotah 22a.] The study of the Gemara affords a sensible appreciation of the principles of the teaching of the Mishnah and thus enables the student to make practical application of his learning.] Prov. XV. 15 Others, 'greedy. Tractate List / Glossary / / Bible Reference |  |  |